I no longer have the patience for wipe after wipe after wipe while the whole group waits for a couple people to finally figure out the mechanics. That’s the worst thing about raiding. I like mythic+ much more. It’s more time efficient for a casual like me. Though I would argue the time investment might end up the same or worse, you do it at your pace and you aren’t beholden to anyone else.
I though we’ve already established that this is not the case in Mythic guilds and many AotC guilds. In most cases it’s a set requirement for the raiders to at least do something for the vault. In other guilds it’s a lot of social pressure because people tend to get mad when they invest more time to help the group and others don’t. Even if they don’t get mad there’s a lingering feeling of being a burden for being behind with gear and falling behind in dps/healing.
Even in pugs it’s a hidden requirement. Why? Because for most groups there’s an itemlevel requirement and this one is automatically inflated because of the availability of M+ gear. The requirements for a basic Heroic run are suddenly much higher when people are already running around with Mythic pieces without ever seeing a Mythic boss.
This is quite the childish take. If someone chooses raiding as their prefered content and wants to do some progress there, it should not be a necessity to grind other content.
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I’ve been reading through a lot of your comments, you got a major case of Dunning-Kruger effect going on here.
If you can’t understand why played-timed metrics are important to investors in a service that sells microtransactions, then you need to do some research.
End game content in general ruined WoW. Making the game seasonally based and FOMO based sapped all the real fun they could have added or done with this game, they’ll never improve it and the dead community is more than happy to take advantage of the fact that we all know that nobody is actually really playing WoW anymore.
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Anecdotal evidence.
Before the cross faction lfg was turned on i remember looking at the available content, either random groups, m+ ect. I vividly remember seeing four postings.
I logged off and swapped to my Horde paladin and did same check, every category was completely full.
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You do realize fun is subjective, yes? I’ll tell you I didn’t have much fun refarming SSC and TK while we were progging Black Temple because we needed to replace a tank that had to step away from the game for personal reasons for 6 months.
People make a lot of claims regarding players counts, yet never seem to be able to furnish them. Do you have player counts to support the claim that nobody is really playing WoW anymore? Or did you put the “really” because that allows you to redefine that sentence after the fact to mean something you actually could defend in the absence of any real numbers?
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The near impossible chance of getting loot in large raids with few drops kills it.
M+ 2/5 get a drop guaranteed.
If raid were to do the same it would be 4 for 10
8 for 20.
But it’s like 3-5? at 25
It’s 5 for 25. Every player add 20% chance of one loot.
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Ah ok. Well I suppose that’s kind of good. Though the rescent thing I’ve noticed is duplicates dropping like 2 or 3 of the same things.
Last week was three shields off first boss.
Or things dropping that nobody can wear. Had this happen in the very first ID of Amirdrassil where a bunch of plate items dropped, but that evening we didn’t have a plate wearer. No DK, no warri, no paladin. Imagine there’s no hunter in the raid but a boss drops 3 bows.
I’m still convinced that this change was made to passively reduce the number of loot in raids. They tried to actively reduce it by one item at the start of SL but the backlash was so huge that they had to revert it. Now they tried to accomplish that with GL.
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Seen two war glaives drop no DH in raid lol
Also seen the bow thing you mentioned lol.
I likewise feel my vault is broken as it seems to have a combination of the same armor slots or same items over and over.
I think my first week was only time I got an upgrade otherwise it’s been gem slot or something to catalyst… Or bad stat but high ilvl xP
Wouldn’t this just extend the time it takes for a guild to reach AOTC/CE because they can’t take advantage of the huge gear boost from M+? Don’t get me wrong, I’m a-ok with this because I don’t raid, so it wouldn’t affect me. But it sure would hurt raiders who would rather skip all of normal and heroic and get right to mythic because that’s where all the loot is. Without M+ they’re stuck farming those lower tiers for gear to progress.
And before you say, “well, the raids are tuned under the assumption folks are gearing up via M+ first, so they’d need to retune raids”, what makes you think they’d make raids easier? Wouldn’t it benefit them to keep raiders who want to raid log raiding longer in a season?
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Not if they tune the raids accordingly (as I specified), no.
Raid progression isn’t about gear, it’s about getting the mechanics down.
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So you don’t need better gear to progress? Then why do CE guilds make their players run M+ for gear?
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Because you don’t want the fight to be overtuned.
You can’t outgear progression fights (at least on Mythic).
I’m more concerned about those that do both, having to farm both from scratch every season, carrying 2+ sets of gear, getting weaker just because you entered an instance. And all that because players can’t help but do content they don’t want to do? No thanks.
Never gonna happen anyway.
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This will be offset by not getting nearly as many necks, rings, and back pieces and having untradable items that aren’t upgrades. We don’t have the weights to really calculate which would be better and it would be heavily influenced by your particular raid comp, but both systems would result in wasted gear for consistent raid groups.
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To phrase it differently: Raid progression shouldn’t be so much about gear, especially not gear that comes from another source.
Well, you can. Not completely, but having much more gear makes encounters a lot easier. Bosses die faster and there’s less room for errors and the survivability is much better. Dathea is a great example. With more gear there was suddenly the possibility to just burn through the boss and do as little platforming as possible, which made the fight drastically easier.
More gear isn’t going to help you beat orbs on Smolderon or Dragonriding on Tindral.
There have been novels written by people on these forums on this topic, that M+ is almost mandatory for anyone that raids seriously.
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