So face roll easy only 8% of m+ players have timed all 20s and only 0.2% have timed all 25s. The rewards are fine.
Generally that number is relatively low as a lot of people wonât care for the the portals or achievement that this kind of thing do. There is more than double this amount that did M+ at those levels. Itâs like gear is the main incentive for most people.
M+ needs weekly lockouts like the rest of the PVE endgame content, it is that simple. Or it needs redesigned into something that fits WoWâs always casual nature.
There is more to an MMO than just grinding instances, as long as M+ stays as it is, Blizzard isnât going to be motivated to make other forms of content.
M+ gearing overshadows all other forms of content, because it doesnât have any lockouts. Blizzard knew that having content without lockouts wasnât healthy for the game from the get go, why they deviated away from this just blows my mind.
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M+ with lockouts is a bad idea.
Raid restructured to be m+ like, is a better solution.
No lockout. Mythic gives heroic loot, and heroic gives mythic vault track.
And M+ difficulty dramatically increased to be on par with Mythic raid bosses.
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People wonât like this.
You always bring up black temple, back from 17 years ago when there were single difficulty raids and no other real gear source. Not to mention the the attunement to BT required killing Kael and Vashj, which were not easy at the time. The game was much slower, a large portion of the playerbase never even made it to the level cap back then.
Wrath (15 years ago) established the seasonal gameplay due to multiple difficulties and fully replacing tiers and content pacing has been 4-6 months since except for the final patch content droughts.
â9 month tiers and nobody complainedâ is a joke. Castle Nathria lasted 7 months (abnormally long) and A LOT of people complained.
That would better align them.
Then 18s-20s are about as rewarding as heroic and mythic raid is like hard keys above 20 where there is no gear reward.
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People had families and jobs in 2004 mate, the content just got too hard for the average WoW player, this is why people donât want to raid.
The game just got too sweaty, trying to cater to the top 1%.
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Honestly I think the best way to solve the whole thing is just to have a vendor with all items from raid and m+, and be able to purchase them with flightstones or another currency that has a weekly cap on it.
This way if youâre an m+ only player you have the ability to get your bis trinket or weapon and vice versa for raiders without being forced to do the content you donât want to do. Even if it takes 3-4 weeks per piece to get enough currency to buy an item, at least itâs a guaranteed way to get what you need.
Ultimately if youâre an m+ only player, or someone who only raids and hates m+, you shouldnât be punished for it. To fill your vault with m+ options is 8 runs, which is about 8-10 hours of gameplay a week just to do that (more if pugging). You also have the open world content to do each patch which is another few hours a week. If you want to add raiding into that thatâs easily another 10+ hours a week youâre committing to bringing the total up to 25 hours a week just to do the mandatory stuff to not fall behind.
25 hours a week of a to do list, rather than playing the game how you want to play it⌠itâs no wonder people burn out. Itâs not realistic to expect players to be able to do it all
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Itâs not about BiS items, though. The reason raiders have to do M+, especially the first 2-3 weeks of a season, is to increase overall ilvl. Not to chase specific pieces.
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Yes but thatâs literally always been the case with WoW, even back before m+ you had to spend the start of each tier farming dungeons to get a decent base level of gear.
You can only do the raid once per week and getting loot is far more scarce, which means purely gearing through raid is far worse compared to spamming dungeons where you arenât locked out after run.
The problem from the m+ players side is that if you donât raid, you literally will never get your bis trinkets and weapons since they basically always come from raid. Sure you need to spam m+ as a raider for the first 2 weeks but youâre set after that, as an m+ only player you arenât, thereâs nothing you can do about it.
The only way raiding ever avoids having to do dungeons is if they remove the raid lockout which will never happen. Without a doubt I donât think raiders should have to run m+, and I donât think m+ players should have to raid, but I donât see how blizzard gets out of the whole raid lockout thing causing that problem in the first place
Which expansions required you to refarm expansion launch dungeons to enter the next raid tier? This only started when M+ entered the scene.
The only other time this was a thing, is when Blizzard released new dungeons along with the new raid patch, which is a lot more rare now.
My biggest beef with M+, is that it is not new content, Blizzard canât even make new dungeons each raid patch anymore.
It is a lazy system designed to extract time from the player base.
Blizzard had retention issues that started in MoP, the addition of LFR just made the game so easy to beat, so they needed to start adding systems that would keep players busy, since gearing became so easy.
The old progression we had worked, it kept players busy for a long time trying to get geared up for raids, and raids didnât drop as much gear then either.
Progression was just a lot slower, so it worked at retaining players.
Edit # 2: There is nothing wrong with having people raid log too, Iâd say this keeps players subbed a lot longer than the people that max out their gear in M+ in 3 weeks.
The people that push rating are a small minority of players.
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So now a player who is running M+ as their primary game play mode rather than a funnel to gear for another mode has no reason to log into the game for the first 8 weeks when gear is their limiting factor has no incentive to log in for more than a max of 4 hours per week?
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You still were required to farm dungeons on a character before entering raiding regardless. Your issue still existed, the only difference being you did it once at the start of the xpac instead of 3x that youâre doing it this xpac.
Iâm not saying you should have to do it, I donât think anyone should have to step foot in content they donât want to play in order to be competitive in the content they actually do want to play.
Ultimately blizzard thinks a time played metric is the best philosophy for the game, which is why we are forced into not only running content we donât want to run, but also almost every system in the game being time gated weekly BS to keep it on a never ending grind loop.
Ultimately blizzard has created a hamster wheel that we all run on for months at a time, until the next patch where we do the same thing all over again. This is no longer a game, itâs a job
I think itâs wildly disingenuous to conflate those two things, especially because M0 sweep week 1 is still a thing even after the introduction of Mythic+.
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Only on a fresh character. Your raid gear from the previous tier carried you into the next raid. Heck, a lot of items from the older raids were still valued in the next tier. Which meant players would be incentivized to raid the older raids.
Blizzard had a winning formula that worked for over a decade, the fact that Classic is getting very decent engagement shows it still works.
The feature creep and the ease of gearing is why M+ was brought into the game, players had no issues keeping themselves busy in the past during raid off nights.
Blizzard needed to create other forms of content to keep players busy, instead of turning 5 mans into Diablo Greater Rifts.
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Classic only works because itâs old. Knowledge is widespread, so people can go there and feel like they have done it. (After practicing endlessly on private servers.)
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Itâs also noteworthy that you donât even have to be successful in a key to get loot. Thereâs still one guaranteed drop when the key isnât intime and you get full credit for the vault. Just wipe through the dungeon with tons of deaths and thereâs still something to be gained.
I would love to see more new dungeons that fit the theme and story of the current patch. They donât even have to balance it for M+, if thatâs a problem! Thereâs still tons of casual players out there who donât really do M+ and for them itâs even worse. Theyâre not even getting some recycled old dungeons, like M+ players do during the season.
Thereâs way too much focus on this single game mode and M+ might very well be the reason why weâre getting less and less dungeons over time, because every single mob, RP event, environmental assets, boss abilities⌠everything has to be designed with M+ in mind and might therefore be more difficult during development.
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We had 0 new dungeons in MOP / WOD, then they pivoted with Legion.
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