Every AV win I have had in the last 5 months has started with trading SHGY for SF and telling alliance players who died at SF not to release so we could rez. Once we had SF we moved to IBGY, held it with SF reinforcements. After that it was just recap and push forward. Most horde don’t know what to do when alliance aren’t stuck north of SH and will over commit to defense.
But like I said, it takes an exceptionally dumb horde group to let alliance do this.
I don’t think dumb is correct. It is unexpected. Honestly, the fact that Alliance rolled straight to IBGY was so unexpected that the Horde going to SHGY on autopilot probably screwed us. When Alliance do this with SFGY it is also unexpected. Unexpected + 30+ actually trying is a great recipe for beating the currently apathetic Horde that are in there.
Most games don’t look like this at all though. They are 30 at SHGY with maybe 15 actually trying while the rest find good hiding places. It is irritating beyond belief because I actually enjoy the good games.
Trust me, I want the same thing. I don’t want horde to roll over to an alliance zerg. I don’t want zergs at all. I want competitive games hard fought best team wins but there are just too many obstacles for alliance to overcome to keep alliance involved.
Move the horde cave and alliance will still probably lose more than they win because IB choke is strong, but I feel confident alliance would win much more than they do now if the players who care come back.
Just removing the respawn would be enough IMO and I think that is far easier to do.
Yeah I disagree with that. I don’t think it will make a noticeable difference. IMO the biggest obstacle alliance have to overcome is the ease of setting up the IWB choke. Move the horde cave and alliance can put enough pressure on horde defense to make that set up at IWB harder to do.
Taking IBGY isn’t as difficult to take as players make it sound especially if alliance have reinforcements coming from the middle of the map and not from the north.
When half the raid is AFK? You’re right. Until folks stop that nonsense, any whining about the map imbalance is moot.
and why are they doing that? Because they have lost a thousand matches in a row and no longer care. The alliance will not be motivated until the game is balanced.
Which is why I and others have repeatedly advised a few alliance to go south and soft cap stuff.
Now imagine if they had not stopped at IB and capped FW and the base GY.
So then they get wiped once they move to FW and are back to SF with no progress made, but now they have no SH so they lose SF in short order and game over.
Man your strategy is impeccable, it works if you can old off waves of horde for 5 mins with no respawns.
Maybe if the alliance attention span was longer than 5 minutes they would win more. Why would they be wiping at FW if all of the horde are north? And if all of the horde recall to their base, isn’t that a Good Thing which erases the whole question of the cave location from the argument?
Nah. They played it exactly right. Their goal was to split Horde attention and take SFGY while Horde took back IBGY. It worked perfectly. They then held SFGY while Horde ran around in a disorganized fashion. Once they had SFGY established, they proceeded to IBGY and the game was over. It was well planned, well executed, and exactly the type of thing that is repeatable every 12th game because getting 30+ Alliance to all try happens about that often.
Oh so again it only works if the horde do not defend…
Cool thanks for admitting that your entire strategy for alliance winning hinges on no horde defense.
Horde defend horde win.
I would imagine with all the knowledge of how we don’t win AV it’s easier to hold the druids and farm kills at SHGY for rep turn ins than it is to try and go south and still lose.
Not sure how people don’t see how much more massive the cave graveyard is over it’s position.
It’s changed in TBC because it switched to resources, because they got to Balinda sooner.
Being able to get to a graveyard in the south faster and with double the amount of players res’d is much better at holding or retaking anything the alliance soft cap south than getting to Balinda first in this current AV.
We simply can’t win south because no matter what you take they Rez 20 at a time 20 seconds away from any of the 2 graveyards down south.
You’re completely ignoring the IWB choke. It makes every attempt down south for alliance a do or die. The cave respawn does nothing to fix that. We’ve taken IBGY multiple times despite the cave respawn as long as we have a mid map GY for reinforcements.
I just don’t see that change making a difference. We will still end up north of SH in a majority of the games.
The obvious change is Cave resing,
The actual map balance is a delicate thing though. Map favours horde for initial objectives , and alliance for objectives near end of map. A game that we do get a hard ibgy cap are near impossible for horde to turn around. A change to cave res could swing the balance heavily towards ally.
All in all this is a crappy version with no real solution likely. Reinforcement version or the original 1.5 imo.
Idk its pretty common that the thing that kills our push south is the rez.
If we take IBGY and Lose SHGY, they just send 10 or so down to IBGY, as long as they kill 1-2 of us at a time before it hard caps, we rez at SPGY, they rez at cave 20 at a time 20 seconds away.
The reason we dont hold IBGY is the cave rez, we can assault it, most games i have been in, we do soft cap it, we just cant ever hold it because they essentially have double the amount of reinforcements at double the speed than we do, so eventually we lose it.
Even if they rez 10 at a time at FWGY you’re still getting reinforcements from SPGY, who are now stuck behind IWB.
I don’t see them making any changes, and I’m fine if that make this one. I just don’t see it changing anything because we still have to get players through the IWB choke, which is being set up before we even reach IBGY.
We’ve held IBGY many times as long as our reinforcements are coming from SHGY or SF. The cave respawn didn’t stop us but the IWB choke has stopped us from getting reinforcements.
Since AV is literally impossible for alliance to win until patch 2.3.0, have you guys considered that if you just sent your whole team to galv at the start and then waited to lose, you could get much faster honor and rep per hour? Game would be over in 6 minutes and you’d get 1 token, plus all the Lts and Galv.
Seems better than the turtle at SH for 45 minutes.
Its 20 seconds on epic mount from IBGY from their cave rez. Now get rid of all that and instead when you take IBGY they now rez at FWGY 10 at a time, and 30-40 seconds away from IBGY instead of 20.
You massively reduce the amount of back cap potential they have when you soft cap a graveyard in the south.
Even if they were to send players back to try and retake IBGY, they wouldnt take it as they dont have the reinforcement potential from their cave anymore. Alliance can handle holding IBGY, what we cant handle is holding it and having to fight wave after wave of horde who can retake IBGY even after it hard caps while we move to FWGY.
While you hold IBGY you can literally have 5 people peel away to take FWGY, if its not defended, which it never is, then those few horde wouldnt even rez near IBGY, they would rez at RHGY.