if somebody actually has to legitimately leave a dungeon for whatever reason then a 30min deserter debuff should not matter. a 1-3 min afk for uber eats etc… should not prevent you to leave or be kicked. so to abandon group after you kill the boss you want dont necessarily hurt the group you are in, rather the next person that might be coming in for that boss and a full run.
and if that is what you are doing then a 2 hour deserter should warrant a better penalty and not 30mins.
I’ve seen people vote kicked for saying “AFK a sec”, no one is going to wait around for 2-3 minutes except at the start of the dungeon (because there’s a 2 minute timer before you can vote kick), especially if you’re the tank or healer.
You do know that heroic dungeons have not had a lockout since the second week of shadowlands, right?
Imao people pretending heroic dungeons are full of drama and harrassment.
that is very scenario and group based though. been playing since beta. afked a number of times throughout the years, whether it was a doorbell or a kid needing something. never have i ever been kicked. and never have i afked for more than 1 min or 2. if it had been longer i would tell the group and just leave.
so just another excuse to fuel the fire in my book.
Well your experience differs VASTLY from mine. But you’re right, it will vary from group to group. But I have ran enough dungeons over the years to have a good basis for my statement. This early in the expansion might be different, but closer to the middle/end, it will change.
Isn’t scaredy cat account wide now?
Needs to be a harsher debuff. Make it stack for each time they do it up to being banned from running any instanced content for up to a week across all their characters. There’s no excuse for this behavior. There’s no excuse for not making harsher punishments. We are tired of people ruining gameplay. We are tired of how soft handed you are with punishments for said people. DO BETTER.
If you leave, legitimate or not, you should have a break. Other games that rely on random matchmaking have systems like Leaver Buster which carry significantly harsher penalties. Continuing to queue and inconvenience other players just because “they’re randoms” should carry consequences, and a small time out from abusing the system is very reasonable. Getting kicked is an unfortunate other problem. Most people don’t get kicked for no reason (e.g. afking to avoid leaving), though it is also open to abuse. It should be the exceptional case and not the rule.
The exceptional case then would be “What is the frequency of a false positive kick, and is a maximum one hour ‘Do other things’ restriction too extreme?” In my mind, giving someone a 3 hour account ban would be too extreme. But, you are still free to experience all of the game except for the LFD tool–if you want to do heroics still, you can use LFG tool to make your own party. You are not locked out of any content. Again, this seems very reasonable in terms of punishments against exploitation and abuse, something we agree to not do every time the social contract pops up. An agreement summarized with “I will be a good partner in the World of Warcraft.”
It may not affect the people done with the farm this time, but they won’t be exploiting it this way next time.
It is a change years overdue and welcomed.
No it’s not, you don’t speak for EVERYONE.
There are two solutions, both already in-game in various respects, that resolve this issue without being punitive.
I find 2 to be more elegant and approachable since it provides an incentive to clear as many bosses as possible for a chance on the specific loot you want. With #1, you run into the issue of people being even more demoralized because they completed an entire dungeon and didn’t get what they wanted, so the time expense relative to not getting gear is even greater.
The dungeon deserter debuff is needlessly punitive and is a slapdash way of correcting a fundamental issue with Blizzard’s loot design: tying specific pieces to specific bosses.
You avoid this issue entirely with having a shared loot table. Someone gets their piece of gear on boss 1 and leaves? No issue. Someone else pops in and you continue because no one has actually lost out on a chance for the specific piece they want.
Also, like most non-targeted punishments, you’re going to inevitably effect people who aren’t doing anything particularly bad. If someone has to take an important phonecall that’s longer than 2-3 minutes and they don’t want to hold up the party, why should they then be stuck waiting 30 minutes (or however long the debuff is) to requeue? What if they accidentally queued for the wrong dungeon, or know that they aren’t particularly skilled at certain aspects of the dungeon they’re in? Why would the group want to deal with a person who doesn’t want to be there, and why should the person who doesn’t want to be there be punished for then attempting to do the things they want to do in the game they’ve also paid/are paying for?
Let’s also be clear, the notion that the debuff is going to seriously affect people leaving is also misguided. Those who are after the trinket and get the trinket are still gonna leave, and the people who have no other purpose for running Heroics (or dungeons in general) are still going to say, “Hey, I can’t be bothered to deal with the rest of this dungeon/group, and I can do something else for 30 minutes, especially once season 1 begins and there’s more to actually do”.
The other issue concerning non-targeted punishment is that you run the risk of being annoying but non burdensome, or so burdensome that you dissuade people not just from the punishable behavior (deserting), but also the underlying activity (dungeons). If the debuff is too long, many people would avoid dungeons altogether because the potential of getting locked out of other queueable activities is too much of a risk. Too short, and potential deserters would simply shrug their shoulders and consider it a time cost of doing business.
This also gets to another point I’d make, and it’s not punishing players for poor design decisions by Blizzard. One of the issues is that Blizzard, for whatever reason, refuses to implement any sort of bad luck protection outside of rare instances (such as legendaries). Given that players are going to target specific pieces of gear one way or another (and the lack of systems comparable to Emblems from back in the day means that most of that targeting is via dungeons and raids), the fact that there’s no bad luck protection incentivizes the very behavior that people (and Blizzard) doesn’t like.
Not only that, but given that there are already systems that can detect what gear you have on your character and your account, not having a system that at least prevents repeat drops of the same gear at current or lower iLvls reinforces the problem. There’s no reason that the Personal Loot system can’t account for the existence of the same exact piece of gear on a character (either being worn, in their bags, or in the bank). Furthermore, it’s made even worse because there’s no longer any titanforging system. The absolute best you can do is getting a piece with a desirable tertiary stat, and given that some tertiary stats are absolutely worthless for a broad swath of classes (such as avoidance) or legitimately worthless in every case (such as indestructible), getting the same drop as vendor trash serves only to waste your time. The waste is also compounded by the fact that these drops, by and large, are soulbound, so you can’t even take advantage of the Warbank system and potentially gear alts.
Because of that, I’m firmly in the camp that Blizzard should make a significant design change when it comes to loot as it pertains to the issue of dungeon deserting. As I said before, option #2 (shared loot table amongst all bosses) is my desired choice, as it alleviates all of the issues without introducing any new ones that can’t also be resolved by the introduction of bad luck protection or a system that prevents additional drops of non-upgrade loot. Might it be immersion breaking? Sure, but the people most up in arms about this issue are the ones who couldn’t care less about the immersion relating to boss loot.
You do know that instance lockout (from using “Reset all instances”) is a separate lockout, right?
You can still queue for random instances in the Dungeon Finder while under effect of this limit, but you will not be given a Deserter debuff if you cannot enter the dungeon.
I never pretended to speak for everyone.
It is welcomed though and you also do not speak for everyone. We can disagree on whether exploits and abuse should be corrected with systems where appropriate.
Don’t use LFD to ruin random players experiences just because they’re randomly selected.
Wow, there are a LOT of assumptions there.
It was only if you didn’t stay for at least one boss.
Why don’t they just put the loot at the end of the dungeon in all modes? That would solve a lot of problems.
I suppose it could create others, if you’re unfortunate enough to find yourself in a group of trolls that like to kick people for nefarious reasons. I think that’s common enough to be looked into on their end, but not common enough where it’d make the experience worse.
Munches popcorn
I think the concern with that idea is groups kicking people before the last boss and inviting friends who need something or will pass loot to them.
Yeah there’d need to be some sort of check for this, I suppose. Wish we actually had mods in game like we used to.
But it’d encourage investment in completing the dungeon.
people say it is mostly Gen Xers that play this game, which makes sense considering the timeline. And Gen Xers are supposed to be the biggest “don’t mess with me and I will not mess with you generation alive”…
Yet, the sentiment in this complaint here is not very live and let live, it is not based and not Gen X…it is what we generally consider in popular parlance a millennial perspective of entitlement and control freakism…
I mean I get it sucks for say the tank and heals to bounce after a boss…but they did not sign a contract with you. they do not owe you anything. nobody is obligated to play in a way that makes others feel good. It is a crappy thing to do to leave and I do not like it…BUT, I ain’t about to go about hollering that “there ought to be a law” cuz…let people be man, that is the way. Thsi whiny begging for “laws” and punishment" and control…it is crap, in game and the world!!!
I mean, ask blizz to add blocking and blacklist features, maybe if a dbag is a dbag enough and enough people click I do not wanna ever group with this turd…then dbags will get the memo in a subtle way…but asking for punishment by skydaddy? nah man!
I don’t know if it does work like this, but it should work that if your LFD group is actively in queue searching for another team member, the remaining members don’t get a debuff for leaving. Only the first person.