That isn’t what I was talking about, so maybe understanding what you are replying to is key here. You just didn’t get what I was saying.
I stated that MMOs need player driven goals and then you went off on no sandbox/open content is too niche and excludes players
I played GW2 when it launched and it was fun. The combat system was solid, leveling was easy, and I made more alts on that game than I did in WoW.
It was just the lack of endgame that just bored me. WvW was a 24/7 contest and which server had the better coverage ended up winning. The phasing issue though was a problem in WvW because people would open up portals and 40+ people would teleport next to you and not load for 5s. WvW didn’t even offer any rewards. It was just a round circle each week.
Then you had dungeons and people figured out how to skip almost every dungeon jumping over walls and stuff. Fractals was the M+ repeatable content, but ho boy did it get old. You’d keep resetting it until you got the easy route.
If they had an actual planned out endgame it would have been good. It was the same issue with SWTOR where it had a solid launch, but after 6-8 months there was literally no new endgame content added.
Good news everyone, all games have player driven goals then. That doesn’t mean they need to be a sandbox, or just like GW2. Wow has achievements, pet battles, mount collecting, mog collecting. All other MMOs have at least some of those. What should be added that isn’t there? What drastic, player driven goals need to be accessible in all MMOs?
I pointed out that the lack of direction is a problem with the game, and you needed to disagree. Literally ever content creator that has done anything with GW2 will, and has said the same thing. I stated the the biggest issue that game has is a lack of direction. That was it. And your response was all MMOs should be like that.
lmao that game is the definition of dead
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You just gotta hit it during the new LW story release. Good for a few weeks.
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Guild wars 2 is one of my favorite games.
For the majority of the seven years I was away from wow I was playing it.
Wish so much that blizzard would take ques from GW2 for player agency and alt friendliness… Not to mention crafting and material storage.
The game is glorious.
Does it?
Seems straight forward to me…
End game is there too just fine…
It’s just not meant to take all your time seems to be the biggest difference to me.
I don’t mean this to argue I’ve just had a different experience than what you appear to be laying down.
Sorry but the opinion of content creators literally means nothing more than the opinion of any other random player. GW2 does a LOT right with it’s content, it’s why people play it. SWTOR does a LOT right, it’s why people play it. Literally every other MMO right now is growing in population at a steady clip whereas WoW has been losing people for the last six years because the player driven stuff is what you just listed:
And that’s it. Nothing more. It’s as wide as an ocean and as deep as a puddle.
Other games offer more. Games don’t need to copy GW2, but any game that wants to succeed needs to look at what people like in other games. The lack of direction may be a problem to some, but again, this is a non-issue for so many players.
MightyTeapot, the largest GW2 content creator currently put out a video not long ago listing everything there is to do in the game and its a massive list of things to do. Mukluk also has videos detailing the same. (Since you value content creators opinions so much).
Is why I responded to you because it is flat out wrong. Player created goals are quite literally what make MMOs so interesting as a whole. It’s what helps tie players to the games and keeps them playing.
You literally stated this was a problem, which couldn’t be further from the truth.
You then jumped to this:
For some reason drawing comparisons between sandbox and theme parks which was nothing I brought up lol.
Absolutely false as I see people doing these all the time and never have issues with queues.
This right here is you shifting. You went from player driver goals = bad to the game not having any direction when there is tons.
My response was games need more player driven goals, which you seem to hate. Sounds like you need more of an on the rails type of MMO where you get little choice on what you are doing.
Most players in MMOs want player driven goals, not games on rails. If they wanted games on rails, they’d play single player games.
He has an issue with MMOs that have player driven goals apparently.
Population size is fine, events are packed, people are having a blast.
Pretty far from dead tbh.
Then there is WoW.
People logging in to satisfy their daily and weekly requirement, grinding out the the tower and their rep then logging off to repeat the next day.
That sounds so much more dead to me.
i really like gw2 the character creation is AMAZING!!! i just don’t like that skills change depending on the wepond.
,that once in the area all work for the same quest.
the visuals are so COOL!!!
and is not subscription!!! can you believe that???
GW2 is a game with WONDERFUL combat design and absolutely woeful encounter design, save for a few exceptions.
Howeverrrrr… It’s easily worth it even for just the leveling experience and a smattering of endgame content. And there’s a ton of little side activities to do, as well.
Yeah, it burns me that the dungeons / fractals (think M+) / raids aren’t as good as they could be, but everything else more than makes up for it, if that’s what you’re looking for.
That’s actually a good and impartial way to look at it. You’re mostly right. I often try to make unfortunate circumstances the reason why GW2 isn’t more popular, which just doesn’t pan out sociologically. But if you were to take FFXIV for example, it kind of topples. I will maintain that it is objectively a poor MMO, and yet by a beautiful mixture of things, mostly popular opinion and social influence, it is taking a place on the top.
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You’ve said a lot, without once addressing my point. Not all games should be as open as GW2. You are wrong. Those games are great, but removing the option is wrong. I mention content creators, because they mention is as one of the biggest issues they hear from new players. Those people get to speak to way more new players than the average person. No goals is an issue, and one of the biggest ones the game has.
You keep acting like I dislike the game, but I don’t, and I’ve said I still play it several times. I know GW2 does a lot of things right. That doesn’t change the fact that one of the biggest reasons people quit is a lack of direction. Until you want to discuss the actual thing I commented on; not all games should be purely player driven goals, then I’m done. Everything you are saying has nothing to do with where this started, and I just don’t care about the rest of what you’re saying.
No, not all games should be purely player driven goals.
Gods I love fractals.
Yeah, despite my issues with GW2’s encounter design, Fractals are probably the closest it gets to being right. Some of them (particularly the CMs) are REALLY good.
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Guild Wars 2 is something I wish WoW developers would pay more attention to:
Its open world dynamic content is literally the best feature of the game, including some really brilliant meta-events that bring lots of players together in older zones, and they do it better than ANY game out there
It demonstrates that gear level doesn’t need to be the primary focus of the game
Most importantly, GW2 is the exact opposite of WoW in terms of cooperative game play; everything you do with other players is cooperative. Healing/resurrecting other players in the middle of a world boss without any penalties or stupid countdowns… whatever you do in GW2, you do it better with other players, and you don’t even need to group up.
It’s a beautiful game, with a ton of fun things to do (and an expansion next February that will bring more stuff in); it’s my go-to game when I’m not playing WoW. Even if it’s not your cup of tea, there’s so much in it that I wish the WoW team would pay attention to.
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GW2 has the absolute best mount mechanics, animation out there.
However the game is insanely dated and it is time for a new. It’s time for GW3!
Meanwhile WoW should adopt it’s mount mechanics.
When and where did I say this?
You keep saying there are no goals in the game, literally after complaining about there being player driven goals in the game lol.
The game has PLENTY of goals for players to pursue, this is literally something you complained about in the beginning and WHY I responded to you dude.
I know you like the game, I can tell that much. But your framing of something you consider an issue isn’t actually an issue at all.
Player driven goals are NOT a bad thing for an MMO. It’s one of the biggest demands players in WoW have had since Vanilla and why so many went to Classic. They created their own goals, their own story and their own thing to do. This has been a consistent demand in the industry for years lol. It’s been dying in WoW for years as they add more system and on the rails gameplay and this is what people hate.
So please, where exactly are people complaining about player driven goals?
You are quite honestly the first person I have ever heard say that a game having player driven goals is a bad thing.
Actually it’s a lack of on the rails endgame. Whereas WoW is known for focusing entirely on endgame, GW2 doesn’t. The biggest reason people leave isn’t because of player driven goals.
Is a common statement from people who play WoW and love it @Klowdyknight-area-52.
So again, you state:
Where is the evidence?
Because again, you are the ONLY person I have ever seen complain about player driven goals.
Yessss!
Gods how I wish we had that setup in wow.
I just wanna play the game not spend an expansion with a side job keeping me from alts and other entertaining things I want to do.
I dream of the crafting and resource management, account wide banking and currencies.
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You don’t have to look very hard to see that WoW has swiped a LOT of stuff from GW2, they just swiped the wrong friggen things!! Mythic+…Fractals…hmmm. Gem Store in 2012/WoW Tokens several years later. Mystic Forge/Increased randomness in gear acquisition. All that crap that nobody likes in GW2 is now permeated in WoW.
I liked gw2 my biggest complaint is that it’s not a solo casual game.
It’s definitely a group game