Guild Banks Pt. 9999 ; Guild banks wont be in Classic

[Farrah-gurubashi]

Another prochanger ignoring concepts. Typical. Go back to playing Battle for Mobile Gaming.

[Hadrimmdar-silvermoon (Hadrimmdar)]

I actually have no intention of playing classic but that post of yours caught my eyes.

[Farrah-gurubashi]

“no intention of playing classic”

Here to troll huh?

[Padrepwn-kiljaeden (Padrepwn)]

@Farah-No you didn’t refute any of this. You picked out pieces of posts after you derailed your iwn thread and selectively responded to those.
Avoiding trying to refute the ligic of my counter claims to your points you’ve collectlively gathered from the no change community.
You want to argue or you want an echo chamber that agrees with your views.
You don’t want an open discussion.

Funny this thread hasn’t been flagged for spam as a repeat topic.
Guess we have a good idea which side abuses that “feature”…the same side saying right click report in game will be abused. LOL
Absolutely priceless.

Anyways since you want discussion and your own thread. Here we go:

If you fail to see why adding guild banks is a problem, you clearly don’t understand the spirit of Classic.

If you fail to see guild banks as anything but in the spirit of Vanilla you don’t understand the spirit of Vanilla or maybe some do understand the free gold stream that guild bank alts (gba’s hench forth).

1. They provide a community goal. (spirit of Vanilla)

2. They allow officers to be in game more instead of updating out of game databases.(spirit of Vanilla and updating data bases is NOT gameplay)
   2.Which provides them more time in game to strengthen community bonds.(spirit of Vanilla)

2.b In turn builds stronger more engaged communities.(oh look more Spirit of Vanilla)

3. Less stress on the servers at prime raid time when the main cities are full and a bunch of immersion breaking bank alts with various immersion breaking names with bank in them are being logged in and out.

3.b-We don’t need this to contribute to a reason to slip sharding in at prime time or in major cities.(Bit of Spirit of Vanilla there for ya too)

Even if the infrastructure were there to support them code wise, the data wouldn’t be there.

This is NOT an end all insurmountable task.
They did it once and they can do it again.
Hobbyists have been setting up servers and modifying games for decades.
Besides the fact it is literally what blizz does. LOL

Blizzard - "Authenticity is our goal. We want to recreate an experience that feels like playing 2006 World of Warcraft."

Then went on to add loot sharing, right click report, bnet and possible use of sharding. Which we still don’t know the extent of.
All of thise arguably effect the “experience”.
Which blizz keeps referring to. It’s a classic experience.
When they spoke about core gameplay tgey spoke about questing, leveling, and fight mechanics.
Not one mention of storage.
So yes indeed a classic experience with guild banks very well could be considered.

Again they also said they are removing instant mail so people go out and explore the world.

Fair point. However unless the guild tab is set to free for all or the recieving party has permissions. They would still have to engage another person to finish the transaction.
So they would still be at the mercy of inconvenience.
So not really the instant loophole in every circumstance.

Why would they leave a loop hole like mail/alt storage to bypass inventory management?
If it was so important as has been claimed in this on going discussion.

Those who want guild banks, should admit you want a QoL feature to be added.

I have admitted that there are certain qol conveniences that come along with guild banks.
It was in one of these threads. I’m surprised you missed it being here since the begining and all.
The good that come with them far outweigh the slight qol tgey provide mostly to the officers tracking inventories.
As pointed out they can use that free time ti strengthen community.
I’ve also had a discussion about how gba’s are much more convenient that gb’s depending on the circumstance and from who’s PoV.
There are more mailboxes in Azeroth than there are cities with bank access.
Which is another discussion.

As Ion said, what some people perceive as little changes can cause ripple effects

Yes. We know that is why there have been 13 capped threads one long continuous thread and now this.
This has been thought about and thoroughly dissected from almost every angle.
That is also why this has been the longest on going classic discussion.

I do think it is at a point that blizz shoukd weigh in but I think we’ve been at that point on most wow topics. LOL

And to say, ‘But it works in Current WoW. It worked in TBC’ is to ignore the fact that Vanilla had a radically different social dynamic.

Yes it did have a different social dynamic.
It was a different time. A different era. The people were 14 years younger!
Quite a lot has changed since then.

At their core GB’s and GBA’s do the exact same thing.
They store items for tge guild community to use and contribute to helping each other.
The only difference is in game tracking and an in game UI that the whole guild can see.
If permissions are set so only officers can withdraw you still force the same “social” interaction you would if they are using GB’s or logging onto an alt to retrieve the item.
Further more in thus situation the officer us inconvenienced because he has to go to a major city to make the withdrawal.
Which is more inconvenient? Logging out for 2 mins to log onto a toon sitting in a major city or gaving to fly to a major city from parts unknown?
So really the whole convenience debate boils down to PoV.
Which i did indeed concede in a debate on this angle.

And, again, Ion said they don’t want to mess with that dynamic.

So they added bnet, loot sharing, and possibly sharding. All of which I’d argue affect that very social dynamic.

So. Not putting much stock in what anyone at blizz says especially when they immediately go against what they are saying.
They have less cred with me than the weather people in Michigan.

guild banks were NEVER part of vanilla,

No one is disputing this. It is the only point that can not be argued.

adding the non vanilla QOL convenience of guild banks to classic would not be as close to vanilla as much as possible and that vanilla not only survived without guild banks, but thrived without them.

Now where have I heard this copypasta before.

It’s been shown more than once there is more to it than QoL.

Persistence of a bad idea doesn’t make it not a bad idea.

Suppression of a good idea with bad ideaology has held our species back for millennia.

You continue to argue convenience.

Actually you and another poster keep bringing up convenience. (I wonder…)

And it continues to be irrelevant.

You’re right because there’s more to it than convenience byt you keep saying qol and convenience.
Even though that has been shown to be dependant on PoV for the users of either banking system.

Vanilla means Vanilla, warts and all. Good and the bad. Deal with it. We did once and we will again.

Yes and “Classic Experience” means what blizz sees as the Classic Experience.

Good and the bad. Deal with it. We did once and we will again.

Yes. With or with out them we will get by. Some just won’t contribute to gba’s and some will get free epic mounts or make real money of the scam that gba’s have the potential if being.

The player should have to make the choice whether to give up characters slots for the extra storage space or use those slots for characters they will play at the cost of some extra storage space.

I am all for more player choice but this isn’t a game play choice.
This is a workaround storage management choice. Lol

give up characters slots for the extra storage space

Oh yea this isn’t immersion breaking at all.
This is definitely what was untended.

Just shot the “inventory management is core gameplay” argument right in the foot there didn’t ya. LOL
You’re limping.

use those slots for characters they will play at the cost of some extra storage space.

Bam and the other foot as well.
Now you’re on the ground.

A huge part of vanilla’s guilds was trust and loyalty is everything. your gm or whoever would usually keep the guild’s items on an alt and you had to trust them.

We know how far that goes in online gaming.
We can trust them with a log, traceabilty, and a bit more transparency too.

Bag space is meant to be a resource in and of itself.

Which you just said we could bypass by choosing to use alts as storage.
You just took a self exploded mortar.
You have no leg to stand on with this line of argument.

If you give peoples bank-alts a bunch of low cost bag space in comparison to buying normal bags

Which is what you’re doing making the bank alts in the first place? Don’t forget that.

If you give peoples bank-alts a bunch of low cost bag space in comparison to buying normal bags and what not then you will be influencing the market cost for bags.

So you’re talking about personal guikd banks as storage here?
You’re starting to go a bit all over the place here. If you are referring to personal guikd banks:
That is why IF blizz thinks personal guild banks are detrimental to core game play they can add restrictions to prevent it.

However if blizz does NOT care. Which they have never giving any indication of caring in the slightest since they were added.

Then so what? People pay for sigs which is a positive for the economy.
Gold being moved around in the economy, small source of gold for new players/low level alts.
Ofc the gold sink which is the first tab and so on.
Also those tabs still require bags and so will that personal guild bank alt.
So I’m guessing here but those positives sound like long-term they outweigh a slight decrease in short-term bag sales that ling term will eventually be almost non-existent.
In the long term ofc.

Guild banks weren’t introduced until patch 2.3, so it really has no right being in classic at this point.

Blizz makes this call.

Note not all these came from me but from the Classic community.

Note all of these were shown to have holes in them. Again.

Typical.

Yes derailing the actual discussion seems to be the norm for winning internets round these parts.
I’ve just never actually seen anyine do it so blatantly with their own topic before.
Most around here log onto their alts to do it. Lol.

Speaking of alts and seeing how you don’t care if your thread is derailed. Lol
Who were you before 9 days ago?
You did state you’ve been here since the begining?
So who is you?

[Hadrimmdar-silvermoon (Hadrimmdar)]

Not really. I am curious about Classic so I pop in from time to time to read. I actually have sympathy for the nochange crowd.

[Farrah-gurubashi]

I refuted all your arguments but you don’t see it that way because of your own ignorance. Stop spamming! definitely reporting your most recent post because its spam. You really showed how immature you are by spamming the same thing over and over saying how I didn’t refute your argument for guild banks even though I have multiple times now.

[Padrepwn-kiljaeden (Padrepwn)]

Ah Ratsy my boy! Been wondering when you’d make an appearance.
I’ve been arguing with someone who seemingly appears to be your sister. Lol

How is that any different than pro guild abnk advocates starting new threads because “all their arguments got shot down”?

Oh you mean when the threads in the ild forum capped and to keep talking you had to start a new thread?
Have only had one until this no change one here was posted.
We could have just let it die with the 5bl of you no changers and your alts all posting no changes but that wouldn’t be discussion now would it?
Too bad that’s not what the OP wanted anyways.

And ifc the rest if your pist is your normal copy pasta.
Refer to my original reply to the OP for my counters.

[Fesz-cenarius]

Refer to my original reply to the OP for my counters.

You ignore that fact that the end result of the OP’s “arguments” and your “counters” of those points is the same as if your “counters” had been the “arguments” and the OP’s “arguments” had been the counters.

The two counter each other.

Just as a basic solution “counters” an acidic solution, and acidic solution “counters” a basic solution.

As I said, each and every “pro” has a corresponding “con” and almost every “con” has a corresponding “pro”.

I’m sure that you will dismiss this fact or try to find some way to say it doesn’t count. Prove me wrong, though, and admit the truth of the fact that each and every “pro” has a corresponding “con” and almost every “con” has a corresponding “pro”.

[Farrah-gurubashi]

His “counters” already have been refuted but feel free to refute them more Fesz.

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

likes means approval. My post has more, thus more popular opinion. True Classic players win, retail players lose. Go play retail while you wait for TBC and then try to add QoL features to that. Stop spamming.

Enough likes do mean approval, but until your like counter starts getting near the millions it means nothing because it’s nowhere near a majority opinion. I don’t expect any post reach anywhere near that though.

Your arguments against guild banks have been shot down countless times, and as an example I’ll just touch on how flawed your inventory management and choosing to lose a character slot for more room is.

The mail system could hold 50+ items per character mailbox for 30 days, that’s over 400 slots of free inventory room without a single sacrificing of an actual characters inventory.

That in itself shows that inventory management was not a core aspect of vanilla gameplay, it also shows that having access to a mailbox was MUCH more convenient to inventory management issues than guild banks will ever be. Because mailboxes are everywhere, banks are not.

The only argument you have that isn’t being torn appart is that they weren’t in vanilla, we can agree on that. But that doesn’t mean they won’t be in classic, you don’t have the final say on it, I don’t have he final say on it, blizzard does, but while we are debating this topic, let’s use FACTS and LOGIC instead of trying to use emotions FEARMONGER people into thinking guild banks will ruin classic when facts and logic show otherwise.

[Farrah-gurubashi]

My arguments against guild banks have not been shot down countless times and not even shot down once but nice try.

Mailbox is temp storage, guild bank is permanent. There is an obvious difference. creating guilds for guild banks on alts takes out the need of managing loot. This changes scarcity of bag space. Game changing. doesn’t belong in Classic.

[Fesz-cenarius]

@Redheadchild-kul-tiras

let’s use FACTS and LOGIC instead of trying to use emotions FEARMONGER people into thinking guild banks will ruin classic when facts and logic show otherwise.

Trying to use emotions to fearmonger?

Do you mean trying to use emotions and fearmongering by making statements that boil down to something similar to these, just to give a few examples:

“Without guild banks every Tom, Dick and Harry will be robbing guild blind to fund their epic mounts.”

“Every guild bank alt is nothing but a conniving, calculated thief playing the long con.”,

“If Blizzard doesn’t add guild banks, I’ll just be the one robbing the guild blind and there is nothing you can do about it.”?

Speaking of trying to use emotion and fearmongering, here is a perfect example:

@Padrepwn-kiljaeden

I think I’m going to run some grifts.

[Padrepwn-kiljaeden (Padrepwn)]

I refuted all your arguments but you don’t see it that way because of your own ignorance.

Most of what you replied to was after my initial post like your opening reply:

Go read first post again, There is more than “it wasn’t in Vanilla”

Which was in reply to:

I went through and meticulously answered every single point you posted.
Every single one of them read with an unbiased eye can see they are indeed countered.
Your lack of logucal counter points to my logical rebuttals of your points only strengthens this notion that indeed the only one that can’t be refuted is: It wasn’t in Vanilla.

Which I posted after my intial reply to your OP.
So no counter to any thing I countered originally.

Followed by:

Mailing system they explained they were reverting it to Vanilla ways because the new system isn’t authentic Vanilla feeling. Why would they put guild banks in, a system that also removes player interaction?

Which I did counter in my intial reply but you’re replying to a post after. Which shows you have dismissed my intial post and those points with no consideraration at all.
What you did reply to was:

On the contrary I’ve listened to exactly what they have said and watched as they said they were going against what they said but dont worry because they said it won’t affect the "Classic Experience .
So not to worry if the add guild banks they will say it doesn’t affect core “Classic Experience ” just like when they justified the other things being added.

Which is telling you blizz says one thing and does another. A lot.
So pkease stop using blizz said as an end all because factually. It is not even close ti what you’re try to portray the almighty blizz’s statements as.
Then theres more clear derailment by you of your thread:

In this case no likes and flagging don’t tell everything because the forums aren’t being used as much since there has been no news for months.

Because you managed to bring likes and popular opinion into the “discussion”.

You clearly stated you don’t think I fit the role.

You’re running with this now. I admit a did make a distateful joke about you being a nurse.
I do sincerely apologize for that and I should not have done that.
I will refrain from doing so.
As I said the medical field is important and I do apologize for offending you in such a manner.
I wish you the best but I’m sorry if you’re my nurse and I’m your patient you are in for a rough time discussing any treatment you have to do to me.

As for refuting your logic…

Yes? I’ve shown you have not done so from my intial reply.
I’m afraid until such time as you do I can’t continue to engage in this “not a discussion” conversation.

Good day and good luck.

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

Also @farrah

Unlike some people padre doesn’t need to log on to his alts to get a few likes, because I like a good majority of his posts because he actually uses logic and facts.

I’ve disagreed with him a few times, but that doesn’t mean I don’t like his posts for the fact he actually thinks about things instead of the “herp derp classic my way” that many no changer and pro changers have done.

Saying “I want this to happen” is an opinion, saying “these are reasons this should happen” is a debate. And “this” can refer to making a change or not making a change.

Some are here to debate, others are here to derail conversation to push their own agenda, and considering you are derailing your own thread…

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

I wasn’t aware you couldn’t just remail something to your alt every 30 days.

Sure seems temporary to me then…

[Farrah-gurubashi]

He has used no logic or facts. Iv been stating my stance, giving my argument, and refuting all comments.

[Padrepwn-kiljaeden (Padrepwn)]

Aw shucks Red thanks. Nicest thing I’ve seen posted about me here. I’m going to screen shot it. Lol

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

Lol, I never said they will, I just pointed out one of the flaws of guild bank alts is flawed tracking of goods, which allows people to do that.

It’s like saying letting your bank hold your money and not have them keep accurate records of your money isn’t open to you being exploited by said bank. Intentionally or by accident.

Accurate and trustworthy logging is a very important factor for how easy it is to break a law (even if it’s just an moral law) when storing things for other people and not get caught. That is one of the major flaws of the guild bank alt system. That’s a fact, pointing out that fact is not fearmongering. Saying it will always happen in every instance (which I never did) would be fearmongering, but I never claimed that, those are YOUR words your trying to put in my mouth.

[Farrah-gurubashi]

Why are you putting some of the things you’ve said as if I said them? You don’t think what im saying out cons your pros of guild banks. The discussion between you and I is over. I believe I refuted everything you said and you believe you refuted everything I said. There is nothing else to be said because we have no chance of changing the others opinion on guild banks.

[Malleotempus-emerald-dream]

I’m not advocating guild banks but the “Cause Blizzard said so” argument is a bad one. If we accepted Blizz as a final word then there wouldn’t be a classic server in the first place. Fighting that is how you got here.