Guild Banks Pt. 14

[Fesz-cenarius]

Except it doesn’t stop the officers from scamming the rest of the guild with 0 paper trail.

Guild banks give an uneditable log. Which results in a clear paper trail to follow of something is off.

Do you mean that inevitable log that is virtually worthless?

[Tuathaa-wyrmrest-accord (Tuathaa)]

If your answer is that it becomes a “he said, she said” at that point, she my previous post pointing out how those previous guild bank logs do not prevent theft, show who the thief is or prevent “he said, she said” situations.

They show who deposited and they show who withdrew. There is no he said, she said, with un editable, publicly viewed black and white log

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

Guild bank logs don’t stop the initial theft. Real world business logs don’t do that either.

But they do do a few things.

They act as a very real deterrent
They can help you find out who the their is by giving you a reliable starting point to investigate
They can give you a reliable time frame of when the incident occurred which can help you find out other facts. As an example if Jonny said he withdrew 20 devilsaur leather for Fred and the log shows it happened at 12pm noon server time, but Fred doesn’t normally play until 5pm and Fred says he never requested or got the devilsaur leather, then that indicates a possibility that Jonny never got a request for the leather from Fred and Fred never got the leather because it doesn’t match Fred’s normal play times. Now let’s say leveling Timmy withdrawal a green at 12:10pm, we can now go ask Timmy if Fred was on when Jonny made the withdrawal.

Having a reliable paper trails can make an investigation much more reliable.

But hay, you want to throw logic to the wind and use your sin word of “QoL convenience” to act like your right.

Edit: and if you can find out who the problem is, you can remove them from being able to be a problem, thus stopping future thefts. And if they wish to stay in the guild they will be pushed to pay back their debts from what they stole.

[Tuathaa-wyrmrest-accord (Tuathaa)]

Do you mean that inevitable log that is virtually worthless?

In a game where people tout “server reputation” is it worthless.
Or does ones server reputation only matter when it serves your purpose ie, ninja’s

[Fesz-cenarius]

If your answer is that it becomes a “he said, she said” at that point, she my previous post pointing out how those previous guild bank logs do not prevent theft, show who the thief is or prevent “he said, she said” situations.

They show who deposited and they show who withdrew. There is no he said, she said, with un editable, publicly viewed black and white log

See my previous post.

Johnny withdraws 20 devilsaur leather. Those precious logs show he withdrew that leather, but they do NOT show what happened after he withdrew that leather.

Johnny claims he gave the leather to Billy but Billy claims Johnny never gave him the leather.

That sure sounds to me like a “he said, she said” despite that precious uneditable, publicly viewed log.

[Padrepwn-kiljaeden (Padrepwn)]

It’s kind of like a guy saying that the right click report system will be abused, and people have no way to prevent that abuse.

Please by all means post some links in one of the right click report threads. It’s been in place for years. You should have no problem finding a plethora of legit cases to back up that claim of abuse. Oh wait…
I’l be happy to continue this topic in one of those threads.

People do have a way to prevent abuse of guild bank alts if they fell that abuse will occur, though.

Right. By not contributing to the scam that is GBA’s. Seems pretty anti-community to me. So your “solution” is as anti-Vanilla as it could possibly be. Seems like a “retail mindset” from what I’ve heard about that around here.

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

Lol I think a mod just edited my post, I missed the space on “sin word” and they fixed it for me before I could. Looks like we got a mod in here. Woot.

[Fesz-cenarius]

Do you mean that inevitable log that is virtually worthless?

In a game where people tout “server reputation” is it worthless.
Or does ones server reputation only matter when it serves your purpose ie, ninja’s

Refer to my previous post.

Tell us all how those precious, uneditable, publicly viewed logs proved what happened to that leather after Johnny withdrew it.

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

Read my post, and you will see. Because last I checked those logs do have time stamps.

[Tuathaa-wyrmrest-accord (Tuathaa)]

Johnny withdraws 20 devilsaur leather. Those precious logs show he withdrew that leather, but they do NOT show what happened after he withdrew that leather.

Johnny claims he gave the leather to Billy but Billy claims Johnny never gave him the leather.

That sure sounds to me like a “he said, she said” despite that precious uneditable, publicly viewed log.

Nope because the fault is with with Johnny, he withdrew it or,
If did indeed go that way the officer that did the withdrawal should be in a position of trust then Billy gets gkicked and branded as a guild thief on the server.

[Padrepwn-kiljaeden (Padrepwn)]

Guess what. This is where guild policy comes in. If it was my guild. I would make the last person that log says touched those be responsible. Now Billy should mail them(blizz has a log of mail so yea that can be proven) or make sure he has Johnny acknowledge in guild chat he received them from Billy. Oh look. Another log for proof. GG.

Edit to add: Yes I would make it clear to the entire guild to handle transactions in this way.

[Fesz-cenarius]

Guild bank logs don’t stop the initial theft. Real world business logs don’t do that either.

But they do do a few things.

They act as a very real deterrent
They can help you find out who the their is by giving you a reliable starting point to investigate
They can give you a reliable time frame of when the incident occurred which can help you find out other facts. As an example if Jonny said he withdrew 20 devilsaur leather for Fred and the log shows it happened at 12pm noon server time, but Fred doesn’t normally play until 5pm and Fred says he never requested or got the devilsaur leather, then that indicates a possibility that Jonny never got a request for the leather from Fred and Fred never got the leather because it doesn’t match Fred’s normal play times. Now let’s say leveling Timmy withdrawal a green at 12:10pm, we can now go ask Timmy if Fred was on when Jonny made the withdrawal.

Having a reliable paper trails can make an investigation much more reliable.

But hay, you want to throw logic to the wind and use your sin word of “QoL convenience” to act like your right.

Edit: and if you can find out who the problem is, you can remove them from being able to be a problem, thus stopping future thefts. And if they wish to stay in the guild they will be pushed to pay back their debts from what they stole.

“Fred was not on when I withdrew thgat leveling green. I mailed it to him as he asked me to do.”

You’re right. Those precious logs certainly are foolproof and prove conclusively what happens after a withdrawal.

Riiiiiiiiiight!!!

Go on and keep using security as your crutch in your efforts to see this one of your pet non vanilla QOL conveniences added to classic, though.

[Tuathaa-wyrmrest-accord (Tuathaa)]

Everything deposited and withdrew in a gb by an individual is automatically tracked and timestamped by blizzard regardless of the log.
All part of the account recovery process in case of hacks and thefts

[Padrepwn-kiljaeden (Padrepwn)]

“Fred was not on when I withdrew thgat leveling green. I mailed it to him as he asked me to do.”

Well good because now we can put in a ticket. Seems there’s a bug with mail. Oh look a log to prove what happened. GG.

[Starman-zangarmarsh (Starman)]

Player-edited spreadsheets don’t handle typos.

You know what does work? In-game logs.

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

If it was a mail request this is how simple it is to log that.

Screen shot the in game mail request. Post to guild discord.

Guild banks are not a catch all log, but having a reliable starting point can help other documentation be validated.

What a concept!

It’s almost as if the more logging you have, the easier it is to find the theif, and having a reliable log to time stamp helps a lot.

[Fesz-cenarius]

Right. By not contributing to the scam that is GBA’s. Seems pretty anti-community to me. So your “solution” is as anti-Vanilla as it could possibly be. Seems like a “retail mindset” from what I’ve heard about that around here.

I must have missed the memo that stated anyone storing their own items cannot make those items available to the guild.

That’s right. There was NO MEMO stating that.

I guess it must be possible to not only store your own items if you do not feel you can trust your guild’s officers, but to also contribute to the guild while doing so.

[Fesz-cenarius]

Read my post, and you will see. Because last I checked those logs do have time stamps.

And what exactly do timestamps prove other than when the withdrawal occurred. Tell us all how those previous time stamps prove beyond a shadow of a doubt what happened after that withdrawal.

That’s right. They DON’T.

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

Just keep digging your rabbit hole, your almost to the Earth’s core.

[Redheadchild-kul-tiras (Redheadchild)]

You clearly don’t understand how important time stamps are in an investigation.