I’m not asking for anything else from retail to be added because nothing I can think of on retail comes close to the spirit of vanilla or brings communities together with a community goal like gbanks.
I guess you could say the community feature does but we are already getting that with bnet. /shrug
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Thank you.
Nothing debased here just a bit of RP. Folks see a parallel to that must be because they see one. Why is that?
I don’t know. I still really think an alternate server with changes is best. I don’t see why they can’t just have two kinds of servers in the end. One that tries to be as authentic as possible and another with fun extras like with Guild banks and such. Maybe it would be too much work, I don’t know!
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Logically in a perfect world. Unfortunately we live in reality. Lol
Who knows. Maybe classic explodes like wow did and people do convince them to have a set with some additions but I see BC coming before that.
Maybe they do a community vote like OSRS. Kinda hard to determine. Blizz isn’t exactly forth coming with communication. Lol
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Um, no I didn’t. I called you out for blaming me for my guild’s problems. Nice try.
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The “rat” reference is Fesz’ original character on these forums-Ratsmats.
Fixed that for you.
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Well at least you admitted editing it this time. Instead of delusionally claiming that’s what I said so maybe there is hope…
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Just wanted to make your statement actually honest.
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Too bad there isn’t something that can make your statements honest. Lol
Anything to add on gbanks? Cause I’m done responding to attempts to derail. Start an off topic thread and I’ll gladly pwn you there.
Good day.
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I start this by again stating that my personal Vanilla experience is actually early TBC experience, but as guild banks themselves are a TBC occurrence I think it’s fitting or, at the very least, a mitigating circumstance. With that in mind, on the to post. While I know I’ll automatically be either dismissed or disagreed with by some, I propose we take a deeper look at the question of how guild banks affect the community. For starters, is there even a consensus on how we are defining the make up of the community? If we are to determine the level of benefit, it’s important to look at the concept of the community to see who benefits and how. My opinion is that community exists on both the micro and macro levels and I approach it accordingly.
On the micro level, guild banks will almost certainly make joining a specific guild more palatable. However, unless the percentage of players that are members of multiplayer guilds is greater than 50, I can not see this as a benefit to the greater good. I specify multiplayer guilds to distinguish between actual micro communities and individual players who created guilds just for extra storage space as well as to counter the argument that the macro community is nothing more than a collection of micro communities.
The question then becomes “What effect do guild banks have on the community on a macro level?”. Admittedly, like so much of the guild bank argument as a whole, this is largely subjective. One potential hazard is that community devolves into tribalism, i.e. players’ actions are shaped by the guild and its aims rather than the larger community. The area where I think this is most likely to manifesting is in raiding. For example, a handful of guild members begin to organize a raid and it’s filled with “outsiders”. The raid leader then decides that the original loot agreement will be abandoned in favor of handing out the best loot to fellow guild members. This situation took place in raids before and is even more likely to occur with loot trading as guild members will be able to block roll on items and exchange among themselves later.
While this is a small look at the topic, a fuller look would result in a multi page post as opposed to a multi paragraph post. It’s something to consider though.
Guild banks don’t have an effect on how raid leaders distribute loot.
Some guilds formed tribalism without guild banks in vanilla, some didn’t. Because the practice of a guild bank did exist in vanilla. By use of guild bank alts. The design of guild banks as an official system didn’t come until BC, but the practice was in vanilla.
Guild banks would have no effect on if guilds are tribalism or not.
What they do do is allow for more time from officers to participate in the guild vs making spreadsheets. What they do do is allows for he logs of the guild bank to be trusted as fact and not what someone else wanted them to show. What they do do is allow CS to have a streamlined policy for items in the guild bank, vs on someone’s personal character. They also allow for some convenient but can cause inconvenience depending on the situation.
They allow guildies to see what is currently in the guild bank so they can organize the gathering of needed mats without having to have an officer on to tell them what to do. This allows people to show leadership and grow into an officer by actions instead of just play time matching a majority of the higher ranked guild members.
But the anti guild bank people would have you believe that if guild banks get into classic it will mean everyone has a personal guild bank and no one will talk to eachother, raids will all be premaid by an auto grouping function and everyone will be playing Skyrim single player inside the wow universe. Guild banks are not a change that harm community, they help it.
They won’t lead to LFR, exc. But hay, their entitled to their own opinion. I back my opinion with facts.
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Guild banks were not in Vanilla. Fact.
Dev Watercooler: World of Warcraft Classic
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/21881587/dev-watercooler-world-of-warcraft-classic
All the work we’re doing will ultimately allow us to recreate an authentic classic experience on a platform that is much more optimized and stable, helping us avoid latency and stability issues. Additional improvements will include modern anti-cheat/botting detection, customer service and Battlenet integration, and similar conveniences that do not affect the core gameplay experience.
The developers also share this opinion on maintaining authenticity. I find it difficult to see how the convenience of a Guild Bank wouldn’t change how people interact with their guild.
Which is exactly how it should stay. This means that the Vanilla game did have a system that replicated a version of the modern Guild Bank. The management of items and who has access to those items is already in Vanilla. The management of which player gets those items and how they are traded/mailed is part of the social experience of Vanilla. If a larger guild needs more bank space they can have trusted officers create more alts or if they need more time to access their bank space they can have more officers that are online during different time zones.
#NoGuildBanks
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It’s a refreshing change to see a well thought out argument presented. Have a like as a show of respect. Also, while I’m anti guild bank, I don’t think they’ll lead to the end of the world. Nor do I believe they’ll automatically lead to flying, dual spec, LFR or any number of other undesirable changes. What I do believe is that for any idea to have merit, it should stand up to examination and I wanted to present some thoughts that might bring about examination.
I’ll try to be brief while also addressing the heart of your remarks. As I mentioned before, I think the numbers matter if we’re going to talk about community. If guilds are a significant portion of the game population, then what benefits guild members benefits the community as a whole. As for what constitutes significant, that’s subjective. I use >50% as the measuring stick because it marks the majority, but other numbers could be seen as equally valid. However, if the figure is fairly small, say less than 20%, their benefit to the community as a whole is minimal.
With regards to the logs and security, that depends largely on how closely Blizzard adheres to their stated policy of non-involvement in matters of guild theft. I think this is a point where we agree that Blizzard can be highly inconsistent. I won’t concede your point, but I won’t dismiss it either.
The points regarding tribalism and the benefits to guild members are both valid and negligible in so much as they depend on the individuals involved. Like most things, there will be some examples of both the best and worst of behaviors. Again, I won’t concede, nor will I dismiss.
It’s understood that one way or another players will find a way to do what they need to do. The one thing I would ask of guild bank advocates is this: Would you wait until a later batch of content is released to see how guild activities are impacted by a lack of guild banks? If 3 or 6 or 9 months down the road lack of guild banks has severely hampered a significant portion of the player base, I wouldn’t be opposed to their addition. Also, while not every player will have individual guild banks, there will be some that do.
As a sort of aside, I wish Blizzard would release some of the metrics on player participation for in game activities. I’d love to see how players spend their time.
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I’m sure that I speak for the secret masses, even some no changers…please give us guild banks. And some other additions that will improve the quality of life for classic players like…
some form of e-tournament/e-sport would be fun akin to mythic dungeons or 3 v 3 classic style arenas or rated battlegrounds. Keep it real, reach out to younger millenials and gen z. Don’t try to build a sub base on just older peeps who played classic at release and want stagnation! Let us old ones be the guides for young padawans instead of being relegated to crockety meisterbergers who say “get off my lawn!”
I digress: guild banks are good.
edit: even if you have to make a separate tournament realm like you did back in the day during TBC, let competition shine via 3s, dungeon competitions or rated BGs!!! I’d hit it and promote it. I still got some left in the tank! I’d even make videos.
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I’m all for guild banks with certain limitations because other than a whole bunch of logging in and out and the ability to deposit via the mail system, they’re no different to guild bank alts. My personal opinion is that actual guild banks are a far, far better option than hundreds of bank alt characters on every classic server.
Based on my own experience, I do not believe that guild banks, with the limitations I’ve previously outlined, would effect the vanilla experience at all and that is why I would support the change. Mythic dungeon-esque speed running nonsense however, has no place in vanilla. That play style and the gogogogo attitudes it encourages are fundamentally at odds with what made vanilla great. Arena’s well…wait till you experience a proper AV battle and then we’ll talk ![:grinning:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/grinning.png?v=6" ":grinning:")
“the Vanilla game did have a system that replicated a version of the modern Guild Bank”
This is an interesting statement given the majority of the no changes argument has been based on the premise that there were no guild banks in vanilla.
“The management of items and who has access to those items is already in Vanilla”
So no difference there either.
“part of the social experience of Vanilla”
Debatable but let’s go with it; easily replicated by guild bank permissions.
“If a larger guild needs more bank space they can have trusted officers create more alts”
Exactly. Free storage as far as the eye can see. So having a guild bank with limited tabs and a gold cost is actually less of a QoL convenience.
Really, this argument is about whether the following are part of the vanilla experience:
- logging in and out of bank alts
- external logging of inventory
- deposit via mail system
I think we can safely discount the 1 hour delay to have something sent to you as irrelevant. You either do something else for an hour or travel to meet the bank alt somewhere. That’s not really more or less of a hassle than travelling to IF/Org.
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The system that existed in Vanilla was often based in ToS violating behaviors like account sharing. It’s just that players didn’t care about the rules when the rules were an inconvenience. They did care about the rules a great deal when they got robbed though.
Sure, the tabs are limited. But the players still have access to the free storage as far as the eye can see. Having said that, I won’t argue that it could be a much needed gold sink at some point. It’s one of the few arguments I could see as good for the long term benefit of the game.
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Just because you use your personal characters bank for guild storage doesn’t mean it’s an actual guild bank.
Big difference since the modern guild bank allows withdraws from it with only permissions. I can walk up to the guild bank take what I’m allowed to take without having to discuss it with anyone. In Vanilla you had to ask for the items and then wait to receive it.
That’s ridiculous. The modern guild bank would be used first and then bank alts would be used if necessary. Not having to manage alts and logs of who has what items is a convenience. You’re forgetting that both systems can have bank alts. More bank alts also means more risk which the modern guild bank can mitigate a lot of. That’s another convenience. There’s a gold cost with buying bags and additional bank space as well.
All three are a part of the vanilla experience as there was no alternative available, aka Guild Banks.
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I don’t really see the point in delaying it; it’s either in or it’s not. If they delay it, people will use bank alts in the meantime and may continue to use them instead of paying the gold as they’ll already be set up. Either way, you still end up with a whole bunch of extra baggage on the server.