This is one of the most well worded “I disagree” 's I’ve seen on the forums and I’ve been on here for 11 years.
We are by no way saying that “changes are happening” the importance of it was that a discussion is not inherently to be dismissed and there is reasoning for having it. The entire project is going to have community weigh in on how things should evolve and we hope that we can adhere to what you guys are expecting. Please continue to voice your feedback and discuss.
Its late though so I’m hopping off and watching some more of this Project 60 madness
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There it is. No opinion, nothing about just in-vanilla changes. I have this saved in my Notes app so I’m not going to lose it anytime soon.
Anytime you say “Blizz never asked for community feedback”, refer to this.
Anytime you say “Vanilla changes only”, refer to this.
Anytime you say people can’t voice their opinions, refer to this.
Fesz, this forum is a discussion on the pro and cons of adding guild banks, so far the pro or benefits of adding it is a decently long list.
The con?
Wasn’t in vanilla. That’s the only argument you have and no one is refuting that. But that argument has been shown to not prevent blizzard from considering changes by the fact they want to add sharding and loot trading for various reasons that are NOT QoL for the players, yes they have some QoL benefits, but they aren’t adding them for that reason.
So there are reasons that are not QoL that blizzard will make changes, this forum is discussing guild banks to try and show what reasons it has to be added to the list of changes, and those reasons seem to corrospond with some of the reasons sharding and loot trading are being considered. However this forum is not here to say blizzard should add guild banks. But instead (again to show reasons why, and why not to add them and leave the final decision to blizzard.
If your only argument against it is that they were not in vanilla then please stop trying to strawman other arguments that are very much false against guild banks.
Guild bank alts are in no way more secure than guild banks, yet you seem to be arguing that they are.
Guild banks are more secure than guild bank alts in the sense the LOGS cannot be made to LIE, while guild bank alt logs can. Maybe to you that’s not a huge difference, but it is a difference that matters in terms of security. Which in turn help prevent scams, which in turn helps prevent CS tickets from ever even needing to be made. And in turn this helps make the community less toxic inside the guild as the bad seeds are found out with greater accuracy and removed before they can cause unneeded drama.
Of they want to make the guild bank the same size as what a bank alt can hold I would not argue that. If they want to make having a guild bank eat a character slot from the GM/officer I would not argue that. But the in game log DOES improce security through making the information provided in the log 100% reliable. And you keep trying to make it sound like that’s not important when anyone who would care to think logically on it can tell you, knowing your facts sheet is true is the only way to be able to use it reliably.
EACH AND EVERYONE of those “pros” has been countered, despite your dismissals of those counters and attempts to pooh pooh and hand wave them away.
The list of cons is equally as long as the list of pros, although most of those cons have counters.
The only argument that has not and cannot be countered is that guild banks were NEVER part of vanilla.
And let’s not forget that guild banks would allow people to bypass that need to actually meet up to trade if they want something immediately. You know, the entire reason why the one hour delay in mail is being added back into classic.
Also, we cannot ignore the fact that here you go again not only asking for one of your pet non vanilla QOL covnenience changes, but also advocating a redesign of the guild bank system, thinking that might help your chances?
well actually no, just saying basically “because I said so” is not a counter, but then I have only discussed one ‘pro’ for Guild Banks, and ftr, not for their inclusion , just them as a system.
But giving reasons and examples is a counter, even if the advocates of non vanilla QOL convenience X want to claim that those reasons and examples “don’t count”.
im only talking about the one I have discussed that was not ‘countered’, though I take that more as an opposing opinion was offered in that case anyway.
The only thing that really matters in the context of Classic is of course, that they were not in Vanilla, the difference is security is not so much that it would be a hugely necessary add, but if there is a ton of problems with the old system, I bet it gets talked about.
There are a bunch of “minor changes” out there, some may say guild banks is one, another may say improving ret paladins, another may say wanting updated graphics. Problem being if everyone gets their “minor change/fix” Classic no longer becomes the classic experience.
I personally would love to have a “working” toggle to swap between classic and model updates but this and other minor changes/fixes should be put off till later until at least after the release of Naxx in which I’m honestly open to listening to any and all proposals.
I would not be surprised if all facets of the vanilla system of “guild bank alts” vs. the non vanilla QOL convenience of guild banks get talked about, including the facts that there was still an inordinate number of “guild bank theft” tickets after guild banks were added and guild banks providing the ability to bypass having to actually meet to trade if someone wanted something immediately.
yah dont forget the ‘fact’ that those initial tickets went away after the kinks were worked out too ,lol. But if the non vanilla improved security of Guild Banks get talked about(by Blizzard) due to a ton of problems with the old system, then that would be a thing too.
Would it happen? Honestly I doubt it, the outrage and problems would have to be pretty bad and big.
I guess it comes down to whether Blizzard feels that an authentic truer classic experience is more important than a non vanilla convenience.
We will have to wait to see which way they go.
We do have evidence that they are leaning toward truer classic experience, though, with their decisions to re-institute the one hour mail delay, no balance changes, no transmog, etc.
I would be curious to see if there were more “guild bank theft” tickets before or after guild banks were added.
If there was an increase in the number of “guild bank theft” tickets after guild banks were added, that could very well increase the likelihood that Classic will not have guild banks.
Less? When were there “less” tickets? Before guild banks or after guild banks?
Remember that even you admitted there was likely an increase in the number of tickets after guild banks were added. That increase was apparently not just an initial spike for a week or two then disappearing, either.
Yes, people have years of guild bank experience now, but people also have years of experience with bank alts and guild bank alts, as well.
I’ve never played on a private server. Do those private servers have guild banks?
Yup, and that’s why this is a pointless discussion. Guild banks obviously won’t be added. But some posters here ignore everything Blizz devs say on the subject. Gameplay-wise, you’re getting Vanilla. The good and the bad. Deal with it.
You also seem to keep forgetting that the tickets were less after the bugs were worked out, so yes, less overall after they were added.
Vanilla ones? I have not heard of any, but so few play on pservers compared to what Classic should get, and given how many of them had rotten cores anyway, most would not care either way about any of that.
There is a reason I asked about private servers (and I should have specified vanilla private servers) having guild banks. If those private servers did not have guild banks, then all those people playing on private servers will have had all that time spent on those private servers using guild bank alts to work out the kinks in a system of guild bank alts.
No matter how you try to pooh pooh and handwave it way, the fact remains that guild bank alts can be set up in a manner that will maximize their effectiveness. Experience and time with using guild bank alts will make it easier to set up a system of guild bank alts to maximize the system’s effectiveness.
You are correct that trust and corruption can kill a guild using either system, though.
