how can a player kept log be faked or altered? um…
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Not just a single player kept log.
I specifically said:
Tell me how a system of multiple duplicate logs, with those logs being available on the guild website can be faked since each and every one of those duplicate logs, as well as the website, would have to be edited and doctored to prevent any discrepancies.
Or maybe unlike you I want to actually enjoy classic ![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
if someone or a group of someone(s) wanted to they could do it, point is, it can be done, but if you have to keep that many logs, trust is likely a big issue.
Don’t you mean that unlike me, you want to “enjoy” Classic +?
Nope I want to enjoy classic, I just don’t confuse classic with vanilla
It had nothing to do with “having” to keep that many logs.
It had everything to do with having the guild resources spread out across multiple guild bank alts. Could we have just had each guild bank alt keep their own individual log? Sure, but a few minutes extra for each of those guild bank alts to update their logs to provide additional security (over what those in game logs would provide, no less) was insignificant compared to that additional security.
Now, stop trying to dodge the question and give me a specific answer to the question I posed.
Tell me how a system of multiple duplicate logs, with those logs being available on the guild website can be faked since each and every one of those duplicate logs, as well as the website, would have to be edited and doctored to prevent any discrepancies.
No, you want Classic +. Your posting history leaves little doubt that you want Classic to be as far from vanilla as possible.
Even when the devs shot down your “balance changes” and your desire to see hybrids doing DPS equal to pures while retaining all of their utility, you simply doubled down on your demands for dual spec.
No I just accept classic will not be a time machine and I also accept that non core game play changes won’t be made.
Guild banks are not a core game play change and as such they should be included
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That is your opinion.
it remains to be seen if the devs share that opinion. So far, it is not looking good.
Transmog could be said to be no more of a core game play change than guild banks, yet Blizzard has already shot transmogs down. Blizzard has so far shot down almost every non vanilla change.
I would not count on guild banks avoiding that fate.
Even the “reduced tickets” argument holds little to no water, as the number of tickets after guild banks were implemented was still very high, if not higher than it was before guild banks were implemented.
Lol i didn’t dodge your questiion I answered it.
if someone or a group of someone(s) wanted to they could do it, point is, it can be done, but if you have to keep that many logs, trust is likely a big issue
there is no additional security with a player maintained log vs an in game one. One can be altered, one cannot.
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/shrug we shall see.
If you think that guild banks vs non guild banks was a key point of vanilla I don’t think you understood vanilla.
No, you dodged it. Saying that “if someone or a group of someone(s) wanted to they could do it” is not telling me specifically how it could be done.
Could it be done? Yes, but doing it would require each and every one those in charge of one of those duplicate logs to be in cahoots and to make the exact same changes in their logs.
How likely would that be, especially if there were a dozen or more guild bank alt holders, each with their own duplicate log that would have to be edited and doctored to avoid any discrepancies?
Once again, tell me specifically how a system of multiple duplicate logs, with those logs being available on the guild website can be faked since each and every one of those duplicate logs, as well as the website, would have to be edited and doctored to prevent any discrepancies.
Not just that “anything is possible.” I want you to tell us all specifically how a thief gets every one of those multiple logs, as well as the website, edited and doctored to avoid any discrepancies.
Transmogs ha e a direct influence on item values, gold farming locations, the leveling experience due to gold farming lower level items for appearance to sell for gold, and in the leveling experience of obtaining more gold as you level instead of being able to sell lvl 10 green items for 1+g purely due to looks. This also alters end game raiding economy due to less items being disenchanted and altering the ability to level and farm enchanting materials die to items being sold for looks when they would have previously been disenchanted.
There is valid economoc, player behavior changing and level experience changing effects from trasmogs due to how they effect the economy.
Guild banks do not change where or how players farm for gold, does not edit the value of items, nor does it make people leveling be able to sell lvl 10 items for over a gold due to appearance.
Trasmogs have a HUGE effect on the economy and comparing them to guild banks is like comparing a hot wheels car to a space ship.
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No it doesn’t. Want to sell 16 devilsaur leather?
Just tell everyone mrtimmy asked for them to make a devilsaur set for himself. And Walla you just took an item and blaimed it on someone else, then proceed to use your “trusted influence” to discredit mrtimmy into being called a ninja and a their and he’s gone, you get away Scot free.
With guild banks however you can track when the items disappears and see if that time frame corrosponds with mrtimmy play time. And you now have a facts window to see if mrtimmy was even on at the time, which is more information than guild bank alt logs would accurately give. And the more factual information you have on a matter, the more likely you are to find the truth.
You are correct.
it remains to be seen if Blizzard is going to start down that road of non vanilla QOL conveniences or if they are going to give us classic that is as close to vanilla as orcishly possible.
Until such time as they let us know what their decision is, I will be here asking for that truer Classic experience that is as close to vanilla as orcishly possible.
But that’s all you need to know, it is possible, you are not describing something that cannot be done, like alter in game logs. So no that is answering, not dodging, specifics aren’t required to make that point that player logs are alterable and in game logs are not.
if you need more than a couple duplicate logs you got issues. and you don’t need to hit all 12, so 12 would not need to be altered, unless you also require all 12 to maintain logs for GBs that they do not have access to, at that point you really start to make the case for GBs as the system becomes way too unwieldy for what most guilds would even need.
But that is the truth here, it is possible whereas the in game logs cannot be altered.
And that withdrawal would be reflected on the guild website.
Those precious in game logs cannot be edited, but they are no more secure than those multiple player kept logs.
Want specifics? Here you go.
Johnny officer decides he needs to sell some devilsaur leather to fundhis epic mount, so he takes the devilsaur leather from the guild bank. The log shows he removed it. When questioned about that withdrawal, he simply says that guild member Billy asked him for the leather and told Johnny to mail it to him, since he was not near a guild bank at the time. Now, it is Johnny officer’s word against Billy’s.
The logs show that Johnny officer withdrew the leather, but Johnny says it went to Billy. Billy, of course, denies that since he never even asked for the leather, let alone received it.
Those precious in game logs did nothing to prevent the “he said, she said” or to prove who the thief was.
See the above post to see specifically how those guild bank logs are ultimately no more useful or secure than player kept logs.
They have already started down that road.
You can either stamp your feet and be ignored or try to influence the coarse of the road.