Still it’s you guys,which is subject to all not just one person.
You berated anyone who has less than a 1500 achievement, then used content you got carried through as your metric for proving someone wrong.
That’s throwing a bit of ego around, in my opinion, but you do you.
Was I talking about you? Hmmm using a forum is hard I guess.
Again if you are getting upset over me saying something then ask yourself if what you said is toxic.
No I didn’t. I said most of the people complaining have probably never broke. 1500.
Even then that’s not me claiming I was good at pve. Keep reaching my guy.
I wasn’t carried sunshine.
And comparing pve to pvp is like comparing apples to oranges. You clearly are grasping for straws now.
The irony and hypocrisy is hilarious.
Implying they shouldn’t be speaking.
Right. Lots a guilds are 5/9M with the entire group grey parsing. :x
Implying they don’t have very much credibility.
Everyone can have an opinion. Doesn’t mean it’s credible.
Generally people don’t care about parses on progging especially in a casual
Mythic guild like I’m in.
We aren’t even running an Aug
You had zero quotes so it was assumption that it was me.
I was involved in premading since the start of the game and while I’m not doing it right now can explain a bit why it happened and what changed over the years.
If you want a TL;RD summary this post is not for you 
Yes, initially there were “farming” reasons for it - in vanilla it was to work together to grind out rank and titles. Guilds on PvP servers were created around the idea of rank grinding. That’s all we did in many cases. All that of course was single-server. Later many of the same players who did the rank grind began to work together to get ‘their’ Bloodthirsty title (250k HK’s) as a cross-server community.
I’ll add that these people were not the “sweaty” young players you might imagine them to be. In my group the majority of the leaders were women and on the older end of the scale. We had one woman who played almost every match with us who was recovering from a stroke. She used to think it was incredibly funny that “a bunch of little old ladies” could destroy a PUG composed of players who no doubt were much more skilled and far better geared than we were. But the power of teamwork almost always trumps raw individual skill.
Now, almost all this activity was in what is now called “epic” (large-scale) BGs. As with most organized social activities in this game, we had designated leaders, target callers, grippers, our stealth teams, our back-cap group, etc. We had place names for various “chokes” (strong defensive positions) where we’d pin down the enemy.
We also had a dozen or more canned strats we all knew based upon classic military maneuvers such as penetration at center, attack from defensive position, singhle and double envelopment, attack in oblique order, feigned retreat, indirect approach, crossing the T, etc.
As with the RBG community, we had a lot of ex-military among our leadership but would have more accessible (and humorous) names for these strats - for example “crossing the T” became “doing a reach-around”.
But theory and motivation aside, how exactly might an Alterac Valley match play out? Here is an example:
We’d start the match by rushing full-speed to Galvangers building - where we’d hide long before Alliance saw us approach. Once all the Alliance were on Galv (Alliance always went to Galv - all of them), we’d rush in and wipe them. This would send their entire team all the way back to their keep because in their headlong sprint, they had not yet taken a forward GY.
We’d then pull back behind Tower Point and wait out of sight while the now rather spooked Alliance team regained confidence by returning and killing Galvanger and everything up to that point without opposition.
Finally, they’d reach TP and discovered they couldn’t move further - we neither moved forward or back, just let them crash upon us over and over. After a while - when our stealthed scouts saw they were beginning to AFK in the rear out of frustration - we’d do a reset by taking their GY, wipe them, and send them back to the rear.
Sure, some stealthers would get through and cap things, but we had a dedicated backcap team. Often our leaders were on it so they had the luxury of watching the map most of the time. Backcap team would make it impossible for their stealthers to accomplish anything.
After resetting at TP, we’d all use our recall toys/trinkets and go back to our base - inside with Drek - to wait while Alliance took everything on the map including our Relief Hut and our base towers. We wanted Alliance to regain their (over)confidence and go back to their PvE zerg mentality. We wanted them to taste hope (but some must have wondered where in the world we went).
Then we’d all push out of Dreks room together, retake our keep, and our GY - slowly pushing and squeezing all the stray Alliance cats back to their base where we’d take their relief hut - causing them to cave rez. We’d then immediately leave their base and hit them at their cave where resources would finally run out and the game would end.
If we managed resources properly we’d end up with between 500 and 800 HK’s per match. Again, that example was just AV - but we played every “epic” map and Ashran.
You might rightfully say we were having a lot of fun at the expense of others. And that would be true if our opposition actually stayed for the whole match. But that was rare indeed. We had an addon that would count “rage quits” and it was not uncommon for our enemy to have a 90% turnover not just once but three times during the course of a match. Who stayed for these brutal beatdowns? No, not pugs - just unattended BOTs. We’d easily identify the bots and laugh as they’d take the same scripted routes through the map just to get squashed over and over.
Real players would just AFK out once they saw it wasn’t the quick win they were accustomed to. Keep in mind this we were premading AV and other epics as Horde at a time when the win rate was heavily favoring Alliance. Horde hated to queue for the epics then which meant we had the kind of quick queues you need when you are trying a simultaneous countdown of multiple 5-man groups (each group having an anchor).
Horde pugs who for some reason had not blacklisted AV or the other epics we played and randomly ended up in games with us would be so thrilled that they actually won a match that they’d ask to join us on a regular basis.
Incidentally, the win ratio heavily favors Alliance in the epics once again - so queue times are short enough to facilitate horde premading. The long queues of the faction that is favored to win discourages premading. So what you usually have is a much higher number of premaders operating on the losing side.
So anway, over time we all achieved our Bloothirsty titles yet still did it because we’d become game-friends - and this was our large-group activity (usually a Saturday day/night thing). The rest of the week smaller groups of us would arena and/or RBG. In my small corner there were around 100 players I came to know - but in our shared chat channels there were at times 5000 or more.
But in my case? I no longer premade. Most of the community that was doing it when I did move on to other games or rated play. FOr many of us it was an opportunity to learn how to work together. It was a stepping stone from the chaos of pugging to being part of a cohesive RBG squad.
Would more of that premade generation have stuck around if RBGs extended to epic maps? Absolutely!
We even had a letter-writing campaign to the Devs one year begging that they set up a separate category for “Epic RBG” - because the longer games on those huge maps and all the intricate strategy we loved to deep-dive into those times when we played other premades were for some of us the pinnacle of our Warcraft PvP experience.
We’d hoped that Blizz might see creating an Epic RBG space as an unmet customer need and a business opportunity - but it was not to be.
Now those of us still playing WoW hear there is a resurgence of interest in premading but it is not just at the epic level - instead it is on maps of all sizes. I suspect that some people today are using premading as a training ground and will eventually migrate to RBGs and arena as many of us did.
But looking back I admit I have some sense of nostalgia for the old days when if you were not good enough for rated play and frustrated to the extreme by the clumsy play of uncoordinated PUGs there was a community inhabiting the middle ground.
So what is the solution, IMO?
-
Offer Epic-Map RBG’s - even if they are not always populated and/or popular they would provide people who love those huge strategic maps an outlet that doesn’t negatively impact the PUG world. Give premaders their own sandbox where they can still collect HK, etc - but between themselves.
-
Provide a means of strategic planning for PUG players: Granting PUG players the ability to devise strategies and share a Discord channel before the game begins would level the playing field. This adjustment would mitigate the significant advantage currently enjoyed by premade groups only, resulting in a more equitable and enjoyable experience for all participants.
Bottom line is I propose allowing players to assemble a raid using the Raid Finder channel to join epic BGs. And have those raid-finder groups compete only against one another. If Blizz did that, I can think of a number of leaders who would be thrilled to return to community building in the Epic Map space - resulting in more people who currently PUG learning to work together and in so doing act as a feeder toward rated play - a part of the game that is suffering badly from neglect right now.
Why do they need rated XP to be credible on unrated PVP topics?
I honestly don’t care enough to go through the logs, but I’m certain almost everyone was doing very well or those bosses wouldn’t have died.
Why thank you I see you are.
Because if you aren’t decent at pvp you play the blame game. And a lot of the times people blame other things.
Most people don’t have the mindset where they accept responsibility for their level of play.
You cared enough to look.
I guess me being number two on volocross doesn’t mean anything either 
I just read through this entire thread and I’m reminded of why I don’t PvP, due to some of the attitudes that happen whenever PvP comes up.
But let’s clear up a few things:
- Premades can be frustrating. I remember them way back in the day.
- It’s not against TOS. So it’s not exploiting or cheating. It’s just people being annoying. I know PvP guilds that have been doing this for over a decade. No one has ever been sanctioned for it. If Blizz isn’t sanctioning it, then it’s not against the rules.
- If you still feel it is against the rules, report it and never respond to those premades. You don’t want to get yourself into trouble.
I guess mythic raiding isn’t the big deal everyone claims it is, then.
I agree with them, though, and my accolades defeat yours. So they get the right to an opinion by proxy if that’s really what needs to happen for you to quit bullying people.
BTW I’ll leave you with one last thing as I head off to work…
Right now premading is far more active on EU than US servers but there are still some enthusiasts here among the Americas/Oceanic set.
Who? Just look for individual players who have well over the (account-wide) Bloodthirsty level of HK’s.
Numbers like these don’t come out of standard PUG/rated play combined with War Mode alone:
WoW Total Honorable Kills :: WoWProgress - World of Warcraft Rankings
Oh and I found an article about one of our early communities “Public Vent” by Rathamus - includes a video of a partial (we had 25, rest were PUGs):
Rage Against the Zerg: Horde premades sew up Alterac Valley with vicious Rath Strat (engadget.com)
Depends on what who is claiming what.
Good for you?
Doubtful
Lol your highest rating is 2210
Mine is 2353. I’m beating you by over 100 rating 
And that’s if it’s even arena rating and not lol rbg rating.
The irony of you saying I’m bullying people when you’re doing the exact same thing. What a hypocrite.
- just leave if you see a premade on the other side
Works well enough for me, although after a while/with enough experience you get to know “the usual names” (on the scoreboard) that indicate a premade being in the BG
Simply requeue on a different character or wait out the 15 minutes timeout doing something else, either way works 
No point staying in a rigged/premade-vs-pugs match where you will just be farmed for someone else’s enjoyment
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Looks like a pretty solid wall of max challenger ratings to me for the better part of 10 years. :x
I don’t blame people for leaving. They usually try to win pretty quick but if it’s looking to be a slugfest, I dip. Plenty of alts to que on for the 1st win bonus.
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it literally is not
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