While it wouldn’t fix everything, it would certainly do a good job of culling the unprepared/carries/spoiled players.
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To be honest I can’t think of a single class outside of Warriors in Vanilla/TBC that didn’t have a threat management ability.
Some classes had high threat abilities they had to manage like Shaman’s Earth Shock and Priest’s Mind Blast.
The rest had threat reducing abilities
Priest - Fade
Mage - Invisibility
Warlock - Soulshatter
Paladin - Hand of Salvation
Rogue - Feint and Vanish
Hunter - Feign Death
Druid - Cower
Meaningful and compelling are two separate things entirely. Something can be dull but meaningful in a way of “this must be adhered to”. Threat was meaningful because it was a requirement to manage it.
You couldn’t just not do it without consequences.
I never said threat mechanics were compelling at all.
Too be honest I’m not sure that was necessarily the reason. I would attribute it more to the shift in class and dungeon design. Threat started to matter less around WotLK when dungeons were designed to be considerably easier, and many classes were homogenised to all have AoE abilities.
Since everyone now had AoE capabilities it made sense that the best way to handle packs was AoE them down, with previous threat mechanics that is not something that would have been attainable as tanks weren’t able to get snap threat on that many targets.
Honestly I never once said “bring back threat mechanics” I was simply responding to someone stating that they “were never meaningful” which was a point I deemed to be incorrect.
There are countless things that I too would change before looking towards tank threat for improvements to Live. Personally I don’t have to much of an issue with the Live tank design which focuses on defensive cooldown timing as opposed to threat.
only downside to classic is that allince can have paldiands and horde cant. theey no race that become pallys… that seems little unfair
OPer clearly doesn’t remember why this feature was added in the first place.
Because most people had huge problems getting groups together for ANYTHING. Group Finder was a GODSEND for the majority of the playerbase.
Plus the community now is actually much nicer than it ever was during Vanilla. There are way less trolls and way less aholes.
The problem with the game is that’s it is just old. People found other things that interested more and are simply more busy now than they were in 2004 when everyone was in college/highschool. There’s a reason why there is an uptick in subscription when a major expansion/patch launches and then a quick die off in subs again. People just aren’t as interested in grinding now as they used to be.
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I started in Wrath but I believe the opposite to be true. Before with servers I’ve been on if you were a toxic troll or did something like ninja loot people would blacklist you from joining their groups so they wouldn’t have to deal with you. At that point the player would either have to name change in hopes that people wouldn’t notice or go to another server.
Now with Group Finder I can be as toxic as I want and the only repercussion is that I get removed from the group only to get quickly invited to another.
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I bet all the “remove LFR/LFD” folks like FF!4 and say it’s better. Guess what they are blind to realize FF14 have group finders. lol This is by far a stupid remove LFR/LFD concept. It’s not what is destroying wow or the community. Open your eyes for once.
How come FF14 is doing so amazing and nothing wrong with it,etc. Yet it has group finders.
Yet the whiners complaining about the group finders blame them for the state of wow. That is again stupid.
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Oh, there are a lot of problems with FF14, but their duty finder system isn’t one of them.
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This is what I keep saying but the anti-tools people don’t really seem to give a damn about the struggles of others.
My experience was the opposite though and the biggest trolls and ninjas were actually in the top guilds and they could have their way with anyone they wanted on the server. And if you tried to report them to their GM they laughed at you in Vent over it. There was really no accountability for the upper echelon folks.
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Wow you finally get it. That is EXACTLY what did happen back in the day. If you were a dick, a ninja, or just plain terrible NOBODY would play with you, and you were basically forced to pay for a name change, or xfer off realm. I would honestly say that anyone who was around back in the vanilla tbc era and claims there wasn’t a community is one of the people who was a problem back then. Only people who made no effort, who didn’t lend a helping hand to somebody they passed by who was under attack by the horde, or somebody who only was in it for themselves got left behind. There were dozens of entry level raiding guilds that went out of their way to gear up new players for kara, mags and gruul, and if you learned enough, and were dedicated enough, eventually you could break into the higher content with other guilds or build up a guild yourself to do. That is what these people who claim no community dont get, they act like it should be handed to them, like if blizzard wont give them LFR than its others peoples responsibility to let them see content. NO. Its up to us all to work together to overcome the challenge. That is the only way you deserve anything. Anybody who acted as entitled to see content without effort as these LFR people did, theres no wonder nobody would group with them multiple times like you had to back in the day, they want to be lazy jerks with the freedom of knowing that they can just get a magic new batch of 25 people they havent pissed off yet at the push of a button.
Yup you were there back then, on my Rp-Pvp server your description of how things went down is spot on. Your reputation was everything, all these people claiming otherwise were the trolls nobody would play with or people who were just too lazy to put in the work to earn their spot and dkp
Yet FFXIV, an mmo where every form of group content is entered via a queue, most of them random, has thriving server communities. Yes, server communities started to “die” during WoTLK when LFG was introduced but that’s also when the game playerbase exploded.
It’s like when people moved to the cities during industrialization in the united states. They had left their small towns where everyone knew one another and were now in a place where no one knew anyone-- it was overwhelming.
The way that was solved was people formed new communities, around their job or in social groups and clubs. The Blizz equivalent was trying to put a focus on guilds in Cataclysm but it didn’t work and Blizzard seemingly gave up on helping players form communities.
Getting rid of the LFG won’t solve it though, because it’s not the cause. It’s just something that showed up at the same time.
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I think group finder should stay and be expanded. I want to queue for normal/heroic raids and m+. People know what they are getting into when they sign up, so this “too hard” BS doesn’t fly with me.
I actually agree. At the very least increase the functionality of the raid finder to make it easier to find people for groups.
I have a few addons that improve it, but the fact that there can be two groups that perfectly compliment each other both looking for players but with no chance to combine make it a bad system.
WoW needs to add more systems that help people play together and find like minded players, not remove them.
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No a queue would be bad. People have already shown with things like LFR that if a wipe happens, people will be frustrated and just pack up and leave. Then that causes for there to be a group of people that know what went wrong and how to fix it and a group of people coming in that don’t know what happened and more than likely will make the same mistake.
With the audience that likes “the queue” it very well would be too hard to complete Heroic raids and +10 keys.
So what? They leave, you replace. You are getting too worked up about other people’s impatience.
Not worked up at all. Here’s the thing. For a queue to work with the current players it has to be on content that has little to no chance of failure. It may fly for Normal but not at all for Heroic and high keys in M+.
Even in LFR I’ve seen threads with players frustrated because they faced off against bosses that have mechanics that need to be adhered to but opt to try and brute force their way through with determination stacks. Those kind of players wouldn’t last in Heroic. The system you suggest would only cause frustration.
That happens now in normal and heroic pugs, it just takes longer to find replacements.
What a lot of PUG leaders do is leave their LFG open, even if they don’t need players so they can nab new people when people leave the group. But that feels bad for players looking for group because they can apply to a million pugs and never get selected.
In WoW we’ve never really had a queue with multiple difficult levels and queued content has always been the easiest difficulty. So, people expect it to be easy and don’t put in a lot of preparation before hitting the queue button.
Play a game like FFXIV and you can see how it works differently. The way people form a group has no bearing on their expectations for that content-- it’s what the game teaches them to expect.
I admit M+ might be hard to do without removing keys entirely (which I think they should), but the raids is kind of a deal where you know that they will be hard in advance and have no one to blame but yourself if you sign up and can’t handle it.
Just automate what we have now. The keyholder says they want to do a group, they tell the finder what they want for the group, and the automated system finds players who have flagged themselves as looking for a group and puts it together.
The same as we have now, except the system looks for the group for you. This has the benefit of no one being “declined” for joining a group, which makes people feel bad for no real reason. It probably would get groups together faster since players can’t easily see which groups are looking for them very easily with the system we have now.
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It may work for Final Fantasy but I have no faith in it working with WoW players. And keep this in mind as well that there are players that really are wanting to filter out players that don’t know the fights and just want to a quick clear. So people that have “AOTC only” for their Heroic groups would just be forced to play with people that don’t really have any idea what they’re doing and I personally don’t think that’s okay.
I don’t believe Blizzard wants to even touch multiple difficulties with a queue because of how players react when doing LFR. KJ, G’huun, U’nnat are just to name a few bosses that have caused threads to spawn up on how they’re overtuned and need to be nerfed because they couldn’t just ignore mechanics with determination stacks. I can’t even imagine a Heroic Mekka group that was put together from a queue. That would be hell on Azeroth.
We have people that sign up for things like warmode and then get upset that they get ganked or camped. I don’t forsee anything different coming from players that would want to queue for Heroic raids.