Why does horde get to TP, IBT, and SHB at the same time alliance gets to IWB?
Agreed. People begged and pleaded for an earlier version of AV for months leading up to Classic launch. It fell on deaf ears. Plenty of people who supported (or were generally antagonistic to those who DIDN’T support) 1.12 AV are now complaining about the map.
Here’s one thread where numerous people insisted 1.12 would be fine, it wouldn’t be a zergfest, and that asking for something such as 1.5 or 1.6 AV was unreasonable.
Side note I’ve always been a big advocate of flipping the map. I think it would balance things out marginally. Total speculation, but I think ally win rates might jump up to 20-25% with a map flip, possibly more if ally rankers join in. Best evidence for this- I’ve literally never seen an ally win in the last couple months where the alliance didn’t have at least 1-2 (5 man) groups supporting them.
1 Like
They can easily do that while blocking alliance at SHGY, their summon point is on the north side of the Field of Strife. So a turtle plays right into their wheelhouse.
1 Like
A little bit of detective work would have saved you some embarrassment of not knowing what you are talking about.
Based off of the posts on the EU boards, their alliance are not fairing any better than ours.
And back in 2006, both sides rushed to the boss. Which negates all of the inherent map advantages. And if it wasn’t a rush to the boss the horde made their stand at Galv…giving the Alliance SFGY which is the key to the entire map.
And on top of that explanation, the Alliance had the wait time because everyone rolled a pretty night elf or human female at the time because nobody at launch knew about how stacked racial were for the horde.
So the horde had the instant ques.
What you posted is as silly as comparing boss down times from classic to vanilla. “well back in 2006 it took a really long time to down ragnaros…”
It’s a different game right now fella, where everything is min/maxed to the ninth degree.
Put a bit of thought into what you are suggesting next time.
2 Likes
Really this would just delay the issue as ultimately IBGY being a much stronger position than SHGY is what causes the problems. Coupled with once horde take SHGY it’s very hard for alliance to ever get south again.
If you flipped the map, those who were placed on the north side would afk out…and re wait in que.
That suggestion would not work.
Ahh but then it would show once and for all of it was or it was not a map issue. Then fixes could be worked on.
But at least it would shut horde up about there not being a map issue.
It’s probably three things in total.
- The map really does favor the horde and this is far well more known today than it was back in the day. I’d say that this is something that can be overcome, but it’s true that the way the cave works that it really helps keep IBGY.
- Alliance knows that the map favors the Horde and that it’s very hard to overcome, which is what makes this a self-fulfilling prophecy. They queue into the game already knowing that they will lose. Truth is that while Alliance have a very hard time winning they could also make the game last over an hour if not longer or forever because their chokepoints are extremely difficult to overcome as long as they are actually playing and won’t be taken except by sheer dumb luck the majority of the time. They just give up after a certain amount of time for one reason or another and that’s when our push happens.
- The horde are infinitely more invested into winning and defending because of our queue times. It’s why you see people get upset if they queue into a match that’s halfway through or almost ending. So a tower gets capped and 5 horde will go back to grab it. Meanwhile I’ve seen matches where a bunker is assaulted, but Alliance put little to no effort into taking it back.
1 Like
We already know about the map advantages. It’s no different to that of the racial advantages. This is classic. This is how it is.
There will be no changes. As such just kill the map.
1 Like
IBGY choke is strong, but if horde are not rezzing x20 at the cave, but instead rezzing x10 at FWGY, it’s not the problem it is now.
It would also give alliance more time to get a foothold on the south side of SHGY at SF.
Sure but there are map deniers. Flipping the starts would be a fairly simple thing to do, would probably increase wins for alliance, would be fair if it was random, and would show once and for all that the map needs fixes.
Ya that’s a part of it. But there are other disgusting and inherent map advantages that go beyond abusing 20 rez starting cave versus 10 gy.
The game starts off lop sided because the horde can both get to, and cap SFGY before the alliance can touch it. Placing the alliance into a situation where they now need to assault a GY and the horde needs to just hold it.
SFGY is the key to the entire map as it gives whomever owns it a foot hold into assaulting all bases either north or south.
Who cares about them? They are trolling. It’s the same idiots who think “the human spirit” is just as good as “will of the forsaken” or something stupid.
They know they have no argument so they change the conversation.
1 Like
My response was to the player who said
Moving the cave isn’t a magical fix, but it takes away several advantages for horde and gives alliance some breathing room on defense.
2 Likes
I’ve seen this claim before, as well as Asia. However, I haven’t seen anything that supports it. Do you have a source, YouTube video, etc.?
If the claim is accurate, it would be quite interesting to analyze whatever differences may exist.
EDIT:
From the EU forums, “I don’t think Alliance would achieve 99% winrate that Horde currently has even with “a better map”.”
Ref: https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/av-experimental-event/144965
So, looks like Horde wins in Europe also.
Also, if you own SFGY and either IBGY or SHGY you can double up on rezzes because dying in different parts can send you to different GY. So horde being able to block alliance from getting up the SF ramp is a very large advantage.
Why they have one ramp pointing at the horde start and the other pointing at where horde and alliance first clash I’ll never understand…
If horde are rezzing 20 at the cave that means you wiped them hard at IBGY and are going to win. It isn’t that the horde can rez more there. It is that it is too close and allows for quick support from the 5 or so that rez there instead of at a GY further back.
Seriously. If you are going to make the cave statement, at least don’t exaggerate it to be more than it is. If you wipe horde to the point where 20 are rezzing in that cave, you are going to hold IBGY short of getting stupid and sending everyone south before you actually cap it.
1 Like
The original map designer was either a trolling genius or a complete idiot.
Given how many subtle inherent advantages the horde have on that map, I don’t think it’s an accident at this point.
1 Like