Why remove shroud when you could reduce the pot CD from invis pots? Why must stuff absolutely be removed?
Your answers are always to remove stuff. No one talks about what could be given to other classes as well. The game only gets more boring the more stuff you remove.
When I see this I just kind of assume the other two DPS are already arms/ret or something and they desperately need the third to be the meme swiss army knife.
This is like the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. No class brings the toolkit that rogues do, not even close. Between being able to permanently lock down a mob, sap being the one of the only 2 true CCs, shroud and tricks which are so important that you basically can’t time high keys without them, being able to pull packs and vanish so that the whole group can skip, etc etc.
“They don’t have any mass stuns”
ya sure except the best shutdown toolkit in the game against both interruptable and non-interruptable casts
and that statement came out of someone doing 19’s, lol wow
we’ll also ignore how incredibly hard it is to die as a rogue in M+, clearly staying alive easily is also not useful to your group
I agree with the two posters above me as a Rogue. Rogue’s arguably bring the most interrupts, especially outlaw than any other melee. You have kick, gouge, blind, vanish into cheap shot, and between the eyes. Gouge and blind alone can be overlooked but other random utilities like pulling a pack of mobs (aka ticks in Underrot) via tricks while the tank pulls another pack for big pulls is just an example of even more utility that a Rogue brings.
And once again, why can some of that utility not be given to other classes? Why must it be removed?
I did see a M+ group listing “LF Ret pally” once! … Only once this entire expansion…
/Cry
I’m with Xaethron here. As I’ve said in many other threads on this subject over the expansion, it’s not cool, fair, or good for the game to gut abilities from rogues. Some of us have been rogues since day 1 because we genuinely enjoy playing that class. I very much would love if we all had equal viability on all classes in all content, and I hope the next expansion designs raids/dungeons in such a way to more intelligently take advantage of all everyone’s utility and/or adds whatever utilities that are essential to success to all DPS classes. I guess what I’m saying is, I don’t like that rogues are ahead. And I agree, it’s unfair to… not rogues. If you keep advocating to cut us all down to your level, instead of advocating to bring you all up to our level, we’re just going to have one more unplayable non-meta class complaining that we can’t get groups. Is that what you want? Are you having such a good time at that party that you want company? Wouldn’t it be better to come to our party? We have punch and pie.
The solution is to add more to the other classes to be able to compete with rogue and/or mix up the dungeon design so certain places favor other classes.
We rogues didn’t get together before BFA and say “Hey, we should make M+ this season so obnoxiously full of trash, obnoxious casting trash that really just needs to be interrupted constantly or skipped entirely to take advantage of our utility more than everyone else’s. That’d be sweet.”
A competent ret pally is great for bursting/grievous weeks, assuming they can find their flash of light and/or WOG buttons as well as their hand spells.
Another thing that should be acknowledged is that the more utility every class brings, the less annoying stuff like G’huun or Beguiling (to an extent) is. Could you imagine if multiple people were able to CC those Ghuun mobs in S1? Pull 3 packs together like when reaping was a thing and then kill the Ghuun 1 at a time? Or if multiple people had a way to CC tides emissary from a range instead of just druids?
And mages. And warlocks. And rogues (kinda, need to stay out in stealth).
Almost everyone wants this but somehow everyone having everything became conflated with bad PvP balance in MoP.
Which is strange considering PvP balance can and has been its own separate thing. You dont see pallies using LoH or rogues using Shroud in PvP.
Are you sure? My entire statement was a retort against calls to nerf rogues. Seems to me there’s a lot of people that just want top performing classes nerfed rather than having their own classes improved.
Seriously. Playing a bad class is like being at a party where no one’s having fun. You see the party across the street having a blast. Instead of focusing your time and energy on how you can get to that party, you’re focused on how can sabotage that party, stop other people from having fun, and make them as miserable as you are.
Not a good approach.
You won’t see those ‘improvement’ changes until patch 9.0 at least for sub-standard specs or ever if blizzard’s modern lazy ways continue.
So assuming next expansion comes in mid-late summer 2020 that means that we have an extremely broken state of M+ class/spec balance and representation for almost another year unless the outliers are brought down hard (outliers in the respective roles including prot warrior).
If nothing is changing because improvements will NOT come this expansion given the current development (ie. zero) track record, then season 4 will be even more skewed in class/spec representation and balance making it really hard for the rest of us to care about M+ anymore. For many M+ players (like me) this is the only thing we enjoy in PvE anymore so that means that retail WoW will be confirmed dead to us for a year or more.
Wouldn’t it be easier to reroll to a more preferred class then, if M+ is all you enjoy? There’s a very small meta in that arena. If I weren’t already playing one of those classes, I’d definitely reroll to one. That seems far, far, far, far, FAR easier than waiting, hoping, praying etc. for buffs to your class and/or advocating that everyone at the top end get nerfed.
So your solution is that Blizz eliminate the 25 or so specs that aren’t meta so that everyone will just switch to playing approved classes in mplus? Seems fair, it would really be too much to ask Blizz to balance the specs and roles so that we can play the ones we enjoy.
Unfortunately in the design of modern WoW investing in any one character seriously is a pointless waste of time because most/all classes/specs have very shallow depth and all the other things that traditionally gave depth such as professions are gutted into complete irrelevance, combined with numerous ‘catchup’ mechanisms (heroic raid quality gear in the same tier where it’s relevant is now ‘catchup gear’).
I have not invested heavily in 1 or 2 characters since the MOP days and in the current state of modern WoW I could never imagine ‘maining’ anything again. Either I get decent viability to play 4-5 specs simultaneously pushing their M+ keys each week or this game is dead to me.
Also to make the obvious ‘duh’ answer is that contrary to popular belief WoW is making record profits (driven by microtransactions NOT by subs) so I think having class/spec tuning at least once a MONTH is completely reasonable.
Also if you’re going to have 4 MONTH PTRs (8.2) and test relatively ZERO class/spec tuning how can you then come out and say “no sorry we can’t change things because it would require testing over several months” ?
Who needs rogue when you have alchemists and keys/scrolls?
Plenty of players invest heavily in multiple characters. So it’s certainly not as pointless as you’re making it out to be. Many invest in multiple characters to prevent the exact problem you’re having.
I agree with your points, but I think it’s pretty obvious that major class fixing and tuning isn’t happening in this expansion. I think it would be far easier, and less time consuming, to simply gear up an alt to use in M+, so you’re at least able to enjoy the game now, in the form it exists, and pick up the priest next expansion when it’s hopefully in a better state for M+.
The only other option is pretty much to continue to be frustrated, unable to get groups, and keep being angry at the state of a game that you, I, or any other player has zero control over. You’re basically just typing out the same issues over and over and hoping Blizzard will do something about it. The sheer volume of threads of that nature with almost zero response on Blizzard’s part to address the issues should show you how futile this route is.
Reroll, IMO, and spare yourself the grief. I promise you’ll have more fun this way. If only because you’re actively able to do something about your problem instead of passively waiting for changes that may or may not ever come.