Go look at M+ listing

Gameplay Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
121

You misunderstand, I have already ‘rerolled’ in early BFA. My prot warrior is my best performing M+ tank by far and makes my other tanks (pally/monk/DH in comparable ilvl) feel like wet napkins both offensively and defensively. I’m also getting back into my resto druid. He’s not anywhere near the gear/progression of my priest here but yet I already feel stupidly powerful in similar content where my priest (a few months ago) would have struggled.

I haven’t touched DPS roles seriously since WOD since they bore me to tears (relative to tank/heal roles) and trying to push as a DPS 100% through pugging is a futile impossible effort.

The point is the difference in performance between tank/heal specs at comparable ilvl is way too high right now regardless of how well I play such that it simply is not fun to play the other ‘lesser’ specs. For example I try something like my prot pally on high damage intake fortified weeks and I get my face smashed in soon after my SOTR is on cooldown, while my prot warrior is virtually immune to physical damage just standing there and sturdy against most non-physical situations with his high defensive cooldown uptime + IP spam.

1 Like
122

I don’t disagree with you at all. My point was that we had high mobility casters in MoP and plenty of people QQd about everyone having a purge / interrupt / stun / etc. Not in PvE but PvP where people were getting chain stunned and interrupted and kited by caster cleave comps.

Their concerns were misplaced and the result of that was highly pruned and boring classes. Some that don’t even work or play great at all.

Class design in MoP was far superior to BFA. Even if PvP was not the best. Maybe the answer for PvP would be to make DRs stronger. So overlap would be worth a lot less than it was.

123

No. My solution is to stop coming here complaining and demanding every class that isn’t yours get nerfed, and actively do something about your problem. Because you’ve all been complaining here. And it’s not solving your problem. Because it won’t. Every thread on here is about nerf this class, buff that class, etc., and has been for a year. And where are the changes? Where’s the balancing? Where’s the class tuning? It’s not coming this expansion.

Play something that’s desirable in this expansion or keep playing a less desirable class. If you’re choosing the latter, that’s on you. Stop coming here demanding rogue nerfs, which makes your problem MY problem. I didn’t create your problem. Blizzard did. Deal with what you have, or play something else, or play another game entirely. But complaining here isn’t going to solve your problem. Hasn’t yet, hasn’t ever, and never will. There are more important considerations to Blizzard at the moment than how your class performs at the top end of M+ content.

Accept some personal responsibility and do something to improve your situation. I played a WW monk in season 1. We all know how in demand those are for M+. That’s why I’ve been a rogue since then. I wasn’t getting groups on my WW. They were constantly wanting rogue DPS. I didn’t flood the forums with a billion posts demanding that rogues be nerfed until my WW looked better by comparison. I didn’t spend every day on here making threads about the need for WW improvement until they’re more viable in M+. Nope. I took stock of the state of the game, saw rogues were in demand more than my class, and I took it upon myself to solve my problem by dusting off my vanilla rogue and gearing him up for season 2.

Roll a damn meta class if you want to be able to PUG high M+ keys. Or find friends and make your own group to push with your non-meta class. I group with enough non-meta classes in steady groups as their PUG rogue to know that there’s a lot of people that can and do do this, and manage to succeed in spite of their class.

But enough with the complaining about classes threads. It’s not solving your problem.

124

Buffing everyone leads to power creep and it’s a lot easier to nerf 1 class than it is to buff 11 classes. Nerfing totally makes sense, even if it happens to be the class you play, sorry.

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125

Literally the only thing anyone can do about this problem is ask for nerfs.

Play something that’s desirable in this expansion or keep playing a less desirable class. If you’re choosing the latter, that’s on you. Stop coming here demanding rogue nerfs, which makes your problem MY problem. I didn’t create your problem. Blizzard did.

Hence why people are posting about this here on the Blizzard forums, rather than sticking noticeboards on your refrigerator or something.

126

I posted an example of what I did when confronted with such a problem. There’s “literally” other things you could do. You’re not “literally” forced to come here and complain.

How well has that been working out for you?

127

Your solution is for everyone to stop complaining and roll a rogue instead of doing the sensible things and trying to balance classes. Absolutely moronic.

2 Likes
128

Oh, my mistake then. You’re here balancing classes. I thought you were just complaining to other players similarly in a position to do absolutely nothing about your problem.

129

Complaining about class balance is infinitely more effective than complaining about complaining, which is what you’re doing.

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130

Complaining about class balance isn’t effective at all. It’s not “infinitely more effective” than anything, because it was never effective in the first place. And it’s WAY less effective than just rerolling your damn class. You know, the thing you’re not doing.

If you’re honestly telling me that a more effective solution to your problem of your class not being desirable is to piss and moan on the forums every day instead of just playing something else, you’re delusional.

No one that can do anything about your problem is reading your complaints. Just other players. We can’t fix it. But we are tired of hearing about it.

Go back where you came from with that “you’re complaining about complaining” crap. I’m actually complaining to the problem directly (you) and to the person that can do something about it (you).

You, meanwhile, are complaining at a rogue who doesn’t work for Blizzard.

131

Nobody in this thread addressed anything at you chief. It’s the official Blizzard forums, not your personal diary.

132

Again, my apologies. Your numerous posts recently directed at and quoting me made me think you were addressing me for some reason.

You keep teaching me new things! Here I thought that you talking to me and people quoting me and responding to me were addressing me in this thread.

phew

Glad that’s cleared up.

Look, I’m doing have this stupid back and forth with you. Let’s start dealing with facts.

FACT:

It would take you way less time to level up a new character and gear them out for the content you want to do now than it will to sit there pissing and moaning until the next expansion comes out and overhauls classes.

We’re talking 1-2 months of time played versus 10 more months of posting threads like this and complaining.

AND, at the end, you’d have another character you could fall back on if the next expansion doesn’t actually fix your issue, which it might very well not.

I think you have this delusion that Blizzard is going to come here and read your posts and go “Oh DAMN. Those are amazing points. Why haven’t we fixed that? Let’s go fix that right now for this guy.”

They’re not. They’re not reading this, and no amount of your posting is going to change anything. You can play the game as it is or you can wait until it changes. I fundamentally fail to see how complaining on the internet, to the wrong people, is doing absolutely anything to solve your current problem.

Unbelievable. I’m on your side with all the class balance sentiments and want exactly the same thing you want to happen. We’re on the same team.

Then I have the audacity to suggest that, maybe, instead of complaining about your class, you just try playing a class that doesn’t have the problems your current one does, in the hopes that maybe you’ll have more fun with the game, FOR NOW, as it exists currently, until they fix your class. THAT was my solution. Take some control. Stop feeling powerless about an issue you have ZERO control over (class balance) and do the one thing you have COMPLETE control over (what class you play).

And… then you want to argue with me about why that’s wrong. The guy who agrees with all your points.

That’s more or less why Blizzard doesn’t bother with these forums. It’s just too many people that want to start arguments, even with players who agree with them, because they’re not getting what they want (class balance) when they want it (right now).

133

Fun story:

I tanked keys with my MW buddy this season up to 1.9k. One day we decided to swap roles. We’re now BM/Resto instead of Bear/MW. I do more damage than he could and he can take on larger pulls than I could, with the same 3 dps bros. Plus, since we both have done both roles, we have that unspoken click where we know when the other guys having a rough time.

I enjoy Bear tanking, and I like to think I was pretty good at it, but I can’t deny that our group is more poised for success now that we’ve swapped. It’s amazing what happens when you make change instead of making complaints.

2 Likes
134

How convenient for you that you were both playing a class that had 1 spec that’s the #1 spec at that role, and finally switched to it.

That doesn’t really at all address the dominance of rogues in the DPS role though, and their insane utility for M+ compared to every other class in the game.

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135

And now blizzard will see yet another data point of someone rerolling from guardian druid to a different tank spec. Therefore blizz will do nothing.

How many enhancement shamans switched to ele or a different class altogether because enhancement has been garbage and unfun for a long time ? Have the issues of enhancement been addressed since that population shifted over to another class ? no, enhancement is still a joke (compared to ele or other melee specs)

Advocating this as a ‘solution’ to people will only make blizzard more lazy, and increase the likeliness of this poor balance appearing in the future in YOUR currently powerful spec where it will not be addressed like it is not being addressed AT ALL in BFA

Pushing for this as a solution is about as useful for class design and balance in WoW as telling someone “bro if you don’t like it then quit stop complaining everything is great”

136

I actually rerolled from Bear to Resto, which I was doing in season 2 anyway. I only started tanking because my old tank quit pushing. My MW buddy rolled tank for raid one week and was set, as he was frustrated at how much better Resto can deal with Quaking compared to MW.

Regardless, an inherent flaw in my argument is that I have a set group to run keys 10 hours a week with. We also never run rogue (DH/Ele/Fire). I’d argue the whole reroll complaint would be diminished if essences were account bound to some degree.

I get the pug life complaints, as when I’m bored I’ll go Balance and queue for 15s, which is usually a waste of time. I’d be pretty mad if that was what keys were for me.

137

Blizzard is not going to make huge sweeping changes to the game because a few people complain on the forums or because Quizshift is playing resto now instead of guardian.

It’s a multi-million dollar company with a lot on its plate. It’s going to do class changes when and if it wants to. When it makes the most sense for them to do it, and when they feel like it. And a minority of their player base (you guys do realize that most people playing WoW aren’t posting here, right?) complaining on the forums is not going to make a huge organization change its plans for when it wants to do something.

I would guess that they’re busy working on the next raid and major content patch for BFA, dealing with the next round of classic content, and likely working on the next expansion. They have timelines. They’re not going to drop what they’re doing to work on the issue of priests not being the best healers for high M+ keys in BFA. They’ll address that issue when they get around to it. But complaining here has zero effect on their plans.

If I had to guess, classes aren’t getting fixed until the next raid drops or the next expansion drops. They’re not going to do it tomorrow, and they’re not going to stop working on what they’re working on because you or I said some stupid crap on the forum.

All the complaining is basically pissing in the wind. It’s not having any effect on the issue at all. I simply suggested something that would give you more agency over the problem.

And FFS, they’re not going to abandon prospective plans to fix Guardian druids because Quizshift isn’t playing one. The level of melodrama…

Patch 8.3 Notes:

“While we had extensive plans to rework guardian druids to make them more viable in M+ content, we decided to completely scrap months of work on that because Quizshift stopped playing one, and because Westward suggested that people maybe play a different class if they’re unhappy with the one they’re playing.”

138

So what if there’s a freaking power creep? Blizzard can tune their new dungeons to account for that. Why are all of you looking at this from only one side? If everyone in the group has a silence blizzard could just increase the standard number of mobs that can be silenced per pack from 2 to 5 or whatever. It’s better than the inevitable power drought that comes with nerfing everything. Then you get complaints like “the game is boring” which it would be as theres less to do.

Now that’s not me advocating for every class to get a silence. Ideally everyone would have different kinds of CC and cover different situations. But in the end the game would be more interesting and in depth than it is now. Like I said, emissaries would be less of a problem if more specs had more utility and people might actually enjoy the seasonal affixe instead of hating it because they have no way to deal with it.

139

Amen. I also don’t see how giving more classes the utility necessary to deal with the current expansion’s M+ content would result in a power creep. We’re not talking about upping damage. We’re talking about giving more folks interrupts, skips, and utility, so that when people make a group, perhaps rogues won’t be so mandatory, because say, WW monks can use transcendence on the whole party or something.

What’s the alternative? Take away all rogue utility so no group composition has the skips or interrupts necessary to time the keys we’re currently able to time, and timing a 15 becomes the new max that anyone can actually do?

140

If they’re too lazy to nerf powerful outliers then they are certainly too lazy to do the much higher effort of bringing up numerous specs to desirable status in M+.

Alright then cool, bring on season 4 with zero changes. Looking forward to having to always host my own key because every pug I apply to will go “lol heal priest = garbo” or “lol resto shaman = garbo” or “lol VDH = garbo” or “lol guardian = garbo”.

Also looking forward to the average resto druid or rogue being even more terrible in season 4 since they get a free ride automatic invite just for logging in.