Yeah rogues have stuff that personally help themselves. They dont however bring anything that helps the group besides the shroud and tricks. They dont have any mass stuns. They dont bring buffs. They dont bring curses or anything of the sort. A rogues toolkit is for the rogue which is really how it should be. Thats fine. And every melee class has the mobility of a DH.
And where is the issue with making their self heal abilities stronger?
I’ve already addressed that. Its not a rogue issue in itself. Could you imagine if those poison spewing guys in Atal were marked as elementals instead of whatever the hell they currently are? Or the contructs on the opposite sides?
I’ve said before, many times, that the issue isn’t that rogues are overpowered, but rather that we appear so because so many of our utility abilities shine in this expansion’s M+ dungeons. Like the dude said above about warlocks only being able to banish demons and elementals. Why didn’t they design dungeons with other class utility in mind to make them more desirable? That’s not a rogue problem. This is a dungeon design problem.
Outlaw has already had its AoE damage nerfed twice this expansion, and rogues are still as in demand as ever. Because the dungeons are still crammed full of trash so obnoxious and difficult to deal with for most classes that the most desirable class happens to be the one that can skip trash entirely.
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yea warrior tanks are not over powered either they are just better than all the other tanks at doing the content…
lol
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Actually tanks are more balanced than any other role right now. If you look at the timed runs leaderboard, you can say 4 different tank specs in the top 10, which is a broader range than you get for dps or especially healer. Guardian druids and dh’s are the two that are left out currently, but that means that 2/3 of tank specs are viable for keys at the highest level(4/6 specs), vs healers(2/6), and dps(8/24, maybe). Much better balance, though still crap for the two specs left out. I just wish healers were doing as well as tanks. Druid is still so dominant that even holy pallies, the only other healer on high keys only forms a small fraction of keys over 20.
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Being essentially immune to auto attacks + being sturdy against non physical through IP + insane defensive cooldown uptime + still having #1 damage output (with the proper gear + traits)
Totally fair and balanced yep
In comparison an equivalent geared guardian druid feels like half a prot warrior, both offensively and defensively, you better hope that non physical damage is not coming your way because your worthless mana sponge a*s is going to fold over dead within seconds
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Warriors are good yeah, but it requires extreme coordination from groups. Most notably a kick rotation where no one misses anything. You can get away with missing a water bolt on other tanks, but if it happens with warrior theyre as good as dead. Its a risk-reward type of thing that really shows in higher keys, but typical pugs doing stuff below 18 won’t have that coordination.
Other tanks bring utility instead of raw damage. Guardian druid is in the worst spot, sure, but someone is always gonna be worst.
‘Other tanks bring utility’
Like an AOE stun with a 20 second cooldown (talented) against trash ?
Sure wish my VDH had shockwave and intimidating shout instead of sigils
I don’t disagree with this. How we got the ooze room in King’s Rest when caster comps are actually a thing boggles my mind.
They clearly, clearly gave very little concern about the encounter design with regards to all 36 specs.
I’ve said this for ages. Pretty sure the encounter designers play war/rogue/Druid and made the content accordingly.
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Last I checked you can mount during a shroud and rogues have sprint to keep up.
You can’t mount up during an invis pot, so they are kinda useless in dungeons such as freehold where you can skip all the trash to the first boss with shroud.
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That skip really isn’t it worth it anymore on most routes. Also, you can definitely do it with invis pots.
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VDH does though. In the form of sigil of fear and sigil of chains (chains being a major improvement over shockwave)
It’s worth noting that you can definitely still do the skip if you pop a movement ability before the stealth pot. Roar or WRT are especially good for this.
Look man, you’re obviously a good player to do 19s etc…but are you trolling? You can’t actually believe rogue is balanced for M+, and that pretending VDH(arguably the worst tank) is somehow better than prot warr will make people leave rogue alone.
The utility is too strong. You are delusional or trolling based on your replies in this thread.
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Unless it’s some big magic damage nuke situation (which wrecks all tanks) or grievous affix my prot warrior feels like i’m playing LFD mode with a game genie. I’m virtually immune to physical damage and the combo of IP and cooldown uptime (very high with proper itemization and traits) takes care of most of the non-physical threats. It’s so stupid that defensively a +15 on the warrior feels like a +10-12 on my pally with comparable ilvl and essences/AP. This is before I consider that with proper itemization and traits the prot warrior is still by far top tier in damage output.
Good thing the prot warrior is fun to play in general becoming very fast paced with high haste gear + haste procs so I don’t mind spending so much time/effort on him.
I really think you’re all just misunderstanding. If its not balanced, its because other specs are lacking, not because rogue has too much. The utility is comparatively strong because its able to get the most usage. Why should stuff be removed from rogue when adding stuff to other specs would have the same result.
And I meant to convey that VDH was as good or better than Prot Warrior. Just that all tanks do different things and have their uses
As long as rogue is the only class with Shroud, it will always be the most broken and sought-after form of utility. Anything you could give to other classes would pale in comparison and it will still be a borderline requirement to have in groups even if “utility” as you put it is given to other specs (which lets be realistic isn’t going to happen and you’re just pulling that out of your #&$). The answer is to either give all classes a way of having shroud, or removing it entirely. One or the other.
The ability is a balance nightmare for Blizzard though and I can guarantee there’s no way it will be rogue-only next expansion (if it still does exist in M+ for that matter).
Like I get it man, you like your easy and quick party invites to M+ groups based on what you bring with your class… but trust me it isn’t in any way balanced. If you think it is, you’re extremely separated from reality.
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Pugging keys of that level as an ally rogue isn’t overly impressive. Firstly as a rogue you get near instant invites and the red carpet rolled out for you applying for 90% of groups (which drastically accelerates upping your score as a pug player). And also on alliance side keys are far more forgiving due to how broken shadowmeld is and the fact it can allow your group to time keys you’ve made mistakes in and have no business timing.
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Rogue is still hilariously broken in M+ even if shroud becomes a consumable like drums
Just like resto druid will remain hilariously broken in M+ even if all healers get brez