shattered halls is a 5 person heroic. It is one of the longer ones but is no where near as long as Mara, BRD, or any of the other classic dungeon crawlers. At most you can spend an hour in shattered halls, not 4 like in the others.
i agree. what they need to do is bring back token and tier gear- something people can grind for BiS⌠that and make professions worthwhile again, bringing back bonuses and/or patterns that craft BiS gear.
How so?
Pre-raid BiS items are found in the dungeons, as ever.
If you mean pre-raid BiS at higher item levels than the raid tier theyâre pursuing actually drops, then thatâs a choice theyâre makingâŚnot an imposition of the gameâs design.
Itâs a false argument.
If you donât want to M+, you do not have to. This raid tier is a prime example. We didnât HAVE M+ until the week we had the normal raid. We went straight into the normal raid wearing pre-raid blues and purples fromâŚdungeons.
The point is false.
If you donât like pugging M+, then donât pug M+. It IS that simple. I havenât pugged an M+ dungeon since 8.2. Somehow, Iâve still gotten decent gear and am doing fine in raid progression at the tier Iâm pursuing.
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I beg your pardon it made the experience 100x better imo.
WoW classic experience is based on skipping as much bosses as possible. Emperor/lava run, never doing jandice, Rend runs etc are a prime example of that, if the dungeon is too long or not layerd players will layer it and shortn it as much as possible. If its impossible they just donât do it.
There is a reason why makign a suken temple group takes hours.
It does. The mobs and bosses mechanichs are also harder and more important. So basically there is no arguing, timer and mor HP/Dmg for mobs and bosses alongside affixes objectively makes the dg requires more skill.
It does.
It does.
I like having my time respected, i dont want o spend 2 hours in a dg whereas it only takes 40 mins to finish. I want to allocate my gameplay time in lots of content.
I am sorry but even a m+7 is no place to admire SoB view which can be admired in a normal, no timed, no mechanized run.
The chest drop feels better than several raid drops though, so ya disagree.
They punish players. This season afix though is pretty great, 40% damage is amazing i think it is a alrge improvement where you can actually gain something too aisde negatives.
I like the time, i dont want to be there 2 hours because you want bloodlust every pull. Nobody wants to, they will still do it as fast as possible. All the timer do in M+ is rewarding you more loot and better loot for next key.
Classic dungeons are right there. People still never did full stratholme dgs btw and its completely possible.
More content is always better, but you ask for an experience that doesnt exist in the current playerbase meta. I assume they can do crawling content though, would be interesting.
People would still complain, regardless.
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So⌠just like how MC, AQ20, AQ40, ZG, BWL and Naxx, and PVP invalidated dungeon loot in Vanilla?
Please point out where I said I wanted to take M+ away from you. Iâll wait. I mean iâll even quote my OP:
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There hasnât be BIS gear in dungeons since vanilla/TBC, maybe WOTLK. They normalized gear, so that it stopped punching above itâs item budget(which became ilvl).
What youâre really shilling for, is for raiding to be the only source of gear, when you complain about mplus providing high level gear.
yeah, i mentioned this just below your response.
brd was originally intended to be multiple separate instanced wings by the designers, but time constraints led it to be the massive dungeon it was released as instead.
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False equivalence. Those people are complaining about the poor reward system for M+, not M+ giving worse rewards than something above it
What alternate world did you live in? Let me acquaint you with the history in this timeline. Before Mythic, there was no M+. In TBC, and WotLK, heroic dungeon loot was relevant the entire expansion. Prior to Cataclysm, every raid tier came with new heroic dungeons that contained gear as good as the previous raid tierâs. In Cataclysm they decided to go all in on the elitist mentality, and the Zandalari heroics that came out with the first content drop awarded gear that was still 6 item levels below the previous tierâs raid. After the huge backlash that followed, they relented and went back to the old model, but they also added LFR, which provided even better gear than the heroic dungeons.
In MoP, heroic dungeons were made completely irrelevant, with LFR taking their place as far as catch-up mechanisms go. Unfortunately, LFR is solo content, not group content. The old means of gearing up in a chill environment with your buddies was pretty much gone at that point. MoP introduced âchallenge modeâ dungeons which were timed runs for purely cosmetic gear. MoP is the point at which the design is fully reconciled with your timelineâs version of reality where all heroic dungeon gear was always useless after the first month of an expansion.
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Wut.
LOL.
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sometimes you had to do pvp to get BiS weapons. i guess people forgot about that or werenât around to actually knowâŚ
Still waiting
What did people do prior to M+? Classic still has a vibrant dungeon scene going on at the moment and itâs at the end of the content there pretty much.
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No it wasnât. Heroic loot has always been made irrelevant by raid loot
and that heroic gear was always made irrelevant by that tierâs raids
you mean Vanilla
actually, Vanilla didnât even have Heroic dungeons to begin with so Vanilla was arguably the worst about this
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I can just look at the classic forums to see how âvibrantâ the dungeon scene is over on lil ol classic over there.
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Sure. Iâll take your word for it that it was on par in difficulty as a Mythic+. The difference was that if you failed, everyone still got all their loot, albeit a few minutes later. No oneâs key was downgraded. No one felt like they had wasted their time. The only penalty was disappointment at not meeting a personally imposed goal.
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I guarantee that youâd be able to find a heroic raiding guild as a healer. That isnât even something you can contest, go post in your servers trade chat âholy priest lf heroic guild raiding (time here)â
If youâre trying to find a heroic pug, I donât know why youâd do that to yourself, but youâll need really close to 205/210 for people to let you into those.
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Yes, but raid loot was also scarcer and it took a long time to replace your heroic gear.
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