Uh, I’m not sure how this is confusing. Forced m+ timer mechanics = speed runs.
You haven’t given an empirical number on what constitutes a speed run. Is completing a dungeon in 30 minutes a speed run to you? And there’s no need to complete it in time if the group doesn’t decide that’s the objective. You can continue to do as many +2s the group desires.
… I’m not really sure what’s confusing here. M+ has a timer. Completing and upgrading the key (and getting more than one piece of loot) requires that you time it. It is therefore, a speed run.
It’s a timed-run, not a speed run. My conundrum is that the timer seems to be the hang-up, not the objective time-required.
If you ran a mythic dungeon in 30 minutes but there was no timer, would you classify that a speed run?
What if you ran the same dungeon, as a +2, in 34 minutes (halls of atonement), would that be a speed run?
One objectively took less time to run, but didn’t have a timer.
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because speedrun refer to activities where speed is the most crucial facto.
in M+, the timer is utterly irrelevant until you get to high keys ; you aren’T failing a +2 because you ran out of time. you are failing a +2 because you full-wiped 5 times in the dungeon and do not deserve to progress to the next level.
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Oh, I see we’ve reached the “going to extreme lengths to miss the point” pedantry portion of the discussion.
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That’s why games like this one have choices. So you can find what is fun in a game and run with it without it interfering with someone else’s play.
Sure. No one, not even you:
I’m out of likes for the day, but this post pretty much sums up the environment that the current system has fostered:
I hope I remember to come back and like that post later.
Who among those people said you have to play like Meriweather does (M+ & raiding every week) or unsub from the game?
Like I said…nobody.
You quoted a lot of people from the thread giving you like five other different ways to play that will get you to the same place…without playing like I do.
Lots of advice from people who are being civil and engaging with the topic. Not one of them said anything about “Play my way or unsub.” Nobody.
The way I play is totally normal. I log in a few hours most evenings after dinner. I talk to my guildies on comms. I do my dailies. I level some battle pets. I might heal a dungeon or fish for my guild’s feasts. Then I log out and go to bed. On weekend nights, I raid two hours with my guild.
There is nothing hardcore, elitist, tryhard, or no-life about the way I play WoW.
M0s drop gear that’s suitable for normal raid.
A speed run would be literally trying to complete in the fastest time possible.
I respect your position and don’t mean to insinuate I have all the answers, but I’m always curious about what constitutes an acceptable amount of time to complete a dungeon.
I posit that the modern wow dungeon is ‘programmed’ to complete in ~30-40 minutes. In mythic plus, non-bleeding edge key-levels, there is still time to brief the encounters on-the-fly, but there becomes less of a need to with familiarity.
Take the concept of CC. After a couple times in the dungeon, CC’ing mobs isn’t a measure of difficulty, it’s a measure of survival. As gear and gameplay skill increases and the threat of death decreases, the requirement to CC dimishes too. Additionally, with static mobs, there is no talk of who or what to CC. (“You always CC the hex mob, and bring the melee mobs away for cleave/aoe, then we will single-focus the hexxer mob” etc). This was probably the old school analogy of the current M+ dungeon pathing - knowing which mobs to CC. Once you knew it, there wasn’t really any ‘newness’ to the dungeon.
At any rate, I don’t mean to cause frustration - if there is any - but I think the concept of M+ and scaling difficulty has to revolve around a finite timer. The other method would be on allowing a finite number of tries, or deaths. Reference torghast and it’s scaling difficulty and limited deaths - but thankfully unlimited tries (no admission ticket/cost, like visions). It’s scaling difficulty was countered by (albeit via rng) powers. No timer, just scalar difficulty with each floor in a single layer.
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Notes you’re only 6/10N
I lol’d right back. Sorry, but you don’t have any room to get elitist on me. Your RIO score is exclusively based on M+ dungeons. Did I mention I hate timed content? Why would I bother trying to boost my score doing content that I hate running? I only ever do M+ as a favor to guildies, and only when they don’t have any other alternative.
To be clear, I don’t think your lack of raid progression makes you a bad player. It just makes you a hypocrite.
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The distinction is the amount of time the run organically takes vs. specifically aiming to complete the dungeon within a specified timeframe, because with the latter the party is going to be a lot more mindful about selecting the most efficient path, getting pulls right, reducing drinking downtime etc where those wouldn’t normally be of much concern — yes, people tend to try to be reasonably efficient in any case but in M+ it’s much more of a focal point, while in untimed it’s entirely incidental. In untimed dungeons, nobody’s losing sleep on a +/- 5m-10m variation in runtime.
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It’s hardly an extreme length.
you’re complaining that something who can be casually finished in 10-15 minute have a 35 min timer attached to it.
who’s the one going to extreme lengths here?
I’m well aware of that, and I stand by what I said. Flex was renamed to Normal, Normal was renamed to Heroic, and Heroic was renamed to Mythic. Regardless of what it was called, it was created because there weren’t enough players to fill out a raid roster on low pop servers.
Nope, just don’t have time to raid with a 2 year old. Maybe you’ll get that iLevel up over 200 at some point though.
I didn’t play Vanilla, did you get the best pieces of gear from dungeons? Or from the raids?
well if you are a raider, doing atleast one M+ a week give you a significant piece of loot.
a single untimed 14 sound like a pretty basic requirement for any AoTC-level guild or higher… or conquest cap at 2.1k rating, wathever give you 226 loot.
that would be your reason.
Mythic+ timers are based on the amount of time the run should organically take given an average level of competency.
They are far softer than the Gold CM times were, more like around Bronze.
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