Give us our dungeons back

[Popkone-azralon]

OP is right, but unfortunately the “modern gamer phenomenom” already corrupted this game. They’re trying to hard to turn an MMORPG into an eSport.

Just welcome all the toxicity and mental illness that this “modern” WoW brings, you don’t have an option if you want to play this game. The fact that so many people defend this changes proves that.

Gotta love modern gaming, their guides, addons for MAX EFFICIENCY. Screw fun, engagement, immersion, history, social experience. Just worry about the numbers.

Number fetishism is a thing now. Here we go for Legion 3.0.

[Shamrond-lightbringer]

@Raiimir-stormrage

@Shamrond-lightbringer

You’re running M+, and you’re 10/10N and 3/10H on the raid only a month into the expansion. Your definition of casual is pretty weird.

That’s actually pretty casual.

Your perception of a casual player’s level of commitment is pretty insane, and if the devs continue to buy it, they’re going to continue driving this game straight into the ground. I guess we’ll find out in a couple of months.

[Alannisa-saurfang]

@Shamrond-lightbringer

I’m raid geared, have way more raid progression than the character you’re posting on, and I’ve timed a handful of low end keys.

You are only 1 ilvl higher than me, and I haven’t even touched the raid on normal yet, there is clearly other ways of gearing up, the system is fine.

[Raiimir-stormrage]

@Shamrond-lightbringer

Your perception of a casual player’s level of commitment is pretty insane

3/10H is pretty casual. Like “logs on to raid twice per week” casual.

[Deathriana-whisperwind]

Considering most players had never set foot in a Normal raid prior to Legion, it’s probably on the high end of casual.

[Neshama-laughing-skull]

dont think will ever go back, since blizz make money out or the e-sports is so much money involve that that 1% of players brings compare to the 99% of use that we still pay the subscription.

[Breayanna-arygos]

I can’t help but feel all the “OP is right but yadayada esports” are all just the same person, they keep spouting the same nonsense

[Tékota-malganis]

Mythic+ can burn in hell. Give us DM/BRD dungeons again.

[Raiimir-stormrage]

@Pyri-shadowsong

and when we had a reason to run dungeons despite being fully raid geared… those were absolutely speed runs. as in “pull all trash to the boss, aoe them all down together, repeat”.

I remember 5.4. Zone into this Temple of the Jade Serpent Heroic, Retribution spec queued as Tank of course, ungodly 560+ ilvl. I see the “Mistweaver” healer (obviously Windwalker) jet towards water boss, so I figure I’ll go library.

The 3 DPS never moved from the door I think. They were just confused. We both solo’ed our wing and met up in the courtyard, finished by locking our 3 stooges out of the last boss that we killed in like 5 seconds.

[Shamrond-lightbringer]

@Meriweather-thunderlord

I notice you didn’t address any of that. You just doubled down on trying to make out like there’s something wrong with me.

I don’t know where you got that impression from. I never said your preferences were wrong. I said that they weren’t normal, and there’s a huge difference between those two concepts. I’m not criticizing the way you play. I’m criticizing the expectation that everyone should play that way or unsub.

[Vralok-turalyon (Vralok)]

@Flappydrood-area-52

Nothing changed, though. M0’s still exist. M+ allows for a new challenge with existing content. It’s a good thing.

Speaking as someone that doesn’t really care for M+, I agree with you. It doesn’t take anything away from the game, it just adds an optional challenge for those that want it, and is incentive for Blizz to keep dungeons relevant throughout the expansion.

[Alannisa-saurfang]

@Tékota-malganis

DM/BRD

So like Kharazan 5 man and Mechagon(before the playerbase cried before they were nerfed)

[Seaisleice-andorhal]

If having set raid times is casual now what’s hardcore?

I feel like ya’ll keep encroaching on the casual territory claiming it as your own.

So far Casuals are:

• In multiple guilds
• Have downed a few heroic raid bosses
• Are above ilvl 200
• Have not 1 but 2 set raid times per week for heroic

Like who’s that casual to? ATOC and CE people? Because like they’re not who we’re comparing to lol. Right now causals as demonstrated in this thread are between ilvl 175-199

Getting to 180 I think isn’t too bad as you can start your own group for M0 and not worry about keys, or players worrying about FOTM specs. Getting from 180+ is casual purgatory and no being above 200 is not casual at all it’s actually pretty dedicated.

[Raiimir-stormrage]

@Deathriana-whisperwind

Considering most players had never set foot in a Normal raid prior to Legion

AotC was 40% in BfA for Azshara, same for AotC Argus in Legion…

Let’s not try to pretend Heroic raiding isn’t casual.

[Deathriana-whisperwind]

I don’t get how some players can think that M+ doesn’t appeal to casuals but somehow a three hour dungeon would.

[Meriweather-thunderlord]

@Shamrond-lightbringer

I’m criticizing the expectation that everyone should play that way or unsub.

No one—least of all me, but literally no one—has said anything of the sort.

[Shamrond-lightbringer]

@Raiimir-stormrage

Why does it need to be Heroic ?

Because:

1. The statement you were replying to explicitly said heroic.
2. That last time we had the experience that was described here was when heroic dungeons were the norm:

@Allolria-khazgoroth

Instead of the classic WOW MMORPG experience of dungeon crawling, getting loot off each boss and being able to target and farm bosses for loot

[Raiimir-stormrage]

@Shamrond-lightbringer

• The statement you were replying to explicitly said heroic.
• That last time we had the experience that was described here was when heroic dungeons were the norm:

Mythic 0s are your Heroic dungeons of old.

That’s the thing. Apples to Apples please.

[Deathriana-whisperwind]

I never said it wasn’t, but to be fair many of those AotC runs were undoubtedly carries.

[Azokhar-stormrage]

@Shamrond-lightbringer

I’m raid geared

Checks your raider I.O.

I lol’d

@Shamrond-lightbringer

Way to make assumptions without even checking my armory, though.

Oh I did, that’s why I said what I said.