Give us our dungeons back

[Jurani-cenarius (Jurani)]

@Shamrond-lightbringer

How? I don’t see how Mythic+ enabled anything. Were hardcore players threatening to quit if they released easier dungeons?

Before mythic+, investing the time to create a new dungeon for a patch was not worth it because it would only be run a couple of times until people outgeared it. Now they can be added into the Mythic+ system so that development time is justified. Do you really think it was a coincidence that the expansion we got Mythic+ (Legion) they started making dungeons in patches again?

Last time dungeons were added before Mythic+ was a thing was Cataclysm. People got VERY tired running the troll dungeons, and I’m not sure how the End of Time ones were received.

[Meriweather-thunderlord]

@Shamrond-lightbringer

I don’t see how Mythic+ enabled anything.

It enabled players who don’t wish to raid a path to challenge content that dropped gear that competes with raiding gear.

FOREVER…from Vanilla on down the line, there were people who didn’t want to raid. They either didn’t like raiding or didn’t like being in a raiding guild, so they complained that they could never get raid gear from dungeons (much as you are doing in this thread…it’s a very old song).

So Blizzard introduced M+. It’s 5-man content, easily pugged, that can provide serious difficulty and challenge on par with (or exceeding) raid difficulty…and drops gear commensurate with that challenge.

That’s what it enabled.

[Sickfreak-malganis (Sickfreak)]

I agree with the OP 100%. I don’t wanna do speed runs of everything.

[Raiimir-stormrage]

@Sickfreak-malganis

I don’t wanna do speed runs of everything.

Then don’t. Mythic+ didn’t take anything away. Keep doing what it is you were doing prior to its introduction.

[Chroesire-bleeding-hollow (Chroesire)]

@Donrio-winterhoof

There is still a timer though and yes we can “ignore the timer, fun run guys” but I would rather have a separate non timer version all together. There is no harm in seeing if it successful with the playerbase if blizz is willing to invest the resources. If it flops, it flops and if it is successful then it is another avenue for players.

If nothing else, add a checkbox to the font of power that turns off the timer and forfeits the extra loot piece at the beginning of the run so the group doesn’t have to deal with it screaming all run when they don’t care about it.

[Pyri-shadowsong]

put a tiny post-it note over the part of your screen that shows the timer. you can take all the time you want.

[Raiimir-stormrage]

@Chroesire-bleeding-hollow

If nothing else, add a checkbox to the font of power that turns off the timer and forfeits the extra loot piece at the beginning of the run so the group doesn’t have to deal with it screaming all run when they don’t care about it.

Why do you need a checkbox for that ?

That’s already how it works.

[Deathriana-whisperwind]

You can also get ilvl 200 from the Vault by just doing one +2. Gearing is slow but it’s not hard.

[Shamrond-lightbringer]

@Alannisa-saurfang

Why are you comparing heroic dungeon gear and mythic raid level gear?

Because the discrepancy between the two is absolutely insane. Compare it to Classic. Naxxramas, the final raid of the expansion drops item level 92 loot. UBRS drops item level 63 loot. that’s a mere 29 point difference between the final raid of the expansion and the dungeon loot that had dropped at release. It’s seriously gotten out of hand.

I stand by that assertion, and I also find it interesting that you guys are completely glossing over the rest of that post:

@Shamrond-lightbringer

An upgrade from the covenant gear that’s handed to you for simply progressing your campaign quests. Something, even, that you can disenchant for crystals.

@Alannisa-saurfang

You somehow went from the 2nd step straight to the ilvl that comes from the weekly reward for doing a 15+.

I’m not sure what you were expecting. I was trying to point out how crazy the discrepancy between the two modes was. How does listing out every single tier between heroic dungeons and heroic raids clarify anything?

[Excildor-draka]

@Allolria-khazgoroth

we instead have to deal with a timer and random diablo-style affixes.

Cept, in diablo, you can actually counter everything if you synergize your gear properly, which is not tough (time consuming yes) to do. So really, its nothing at all like diablo.

@Allolria-khazgoroth

Let us choose a “layer” of difficulty for each dungeon, with scaling ilvl rewards.

HERE in the above youre starting to describe diablo more, via their greater rifts. Exception being that in greater rifts, the higher the difficulty you choose the more loot that drops ergo the more likely something your targeting will drop.

[Alannisa-saurfang]

But there are 2 other difficulties before mythic. Why would someone in heroic dungeon gear jump straight into a mythic raid.

Also, none of the difficulties drop 223, thats the weekly great vault reward for running a 12+.

Edit: 12+, not 15+

[Chroesire-bleeding-hollow (Chroesire)]

@Raiimir-stormrage

Why do you need a checkbox for that ?

That’s already how it works.

Because the timer is obnoxious. If I’m doing a run that’s not timing, I don’t want to see it at all. I don’t think anybody would be bothered by seeing how long the dungeon took at the end, just get it out of my face during the run.

[Breayanna-arygos]

@Shamrond-lightbringer

Because the discrepancy between the two is absolutely insane. Compare it to Classic. Naxxramas, the final raid of the expansion drops item level 92 loot. UBRS drops item level 63 loot. that’s a mere 29 point difference between the final raid of the expansion and the dungeon loot that had dropped at release. It’s seriously gotten out of hand.

So you’re comparing Classic, where there was ZERO middleground between normal dungeon gear and the ONE raid tier, to current WoW, where there are three raid tiers between M0 and Mythic raids?

do you even realize what you’re arguing about at this point?

[Raiimir-stormrage]

@Chroesire-bleeding-hollow

Because the timer is obnoxious.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-Scotch-Super-33-3-4-in-x-66-ft-x-0-007-in-Vinyl-Electrical-Tape-Black-6132-BA-10/304653556

[Brujha-wyrmrest-accord]

@Allolria-khazgoroth

M+ has destroyed the WOW dungeon experience

Not sure how long you’ve been playing but Mythic+ dungeon actually revitalized dungeons.

Before m+ dungeon running was completely dead. Folks ran them once for heroic and sometimes for a quest but otherwise dungeons were never used.

M+ brought back a reason to reuse dungeon content over and over and it’s really awesome.

[Deathriana-whisperwind]

Pretty sure UBRS is a 10-man raid in Classic, and being there is no variance in difficulty for raids you progress through each one.

[Chroesire-bleeding-hollow (Chroesire)]

UBRS is an odd case, it’s technically a raid but it plays more like a dungeon.

[Méo-azjolnerub (Méo)]

If anything mythic+ saved max level dungeons. They were completely dead content after Blizzard removed the badge vendors.

I enjoyed the slow methodical dungeon runs of classic WoW as much as the next guy, but people aren’t willing to spend an hour crawling into a dungeon anymore. Times change.

[Shamrond-lightbringer]

@Azokhar-stormrage

Then your own argument applies… you do you. Why are you complaining about M+ if you don’t want to do it? Oh that’s right… you want the gear without the challenge.

I’m raid geared, have way more raid progression than the character you’re posting on, and I’ve timed a handful of low end keys. I’m not even talking about myself. I’m just pointing out that this system doesn’t appeal to most potential players. Way to make assumptions without even checking my armory, though.

Regardless of how you and I play, the fact remains that most players have no engaging group content available once they finish out the time gated campaign. Unless Classic TBC is released by then, you will see subs plummet.

[Pyri-shadowsong]

@Brujha-wyrmrest-accord

Before m+ dungeon running was completely dead. Folks ran them once for heroic and sometimes for a quest but otherwise dungeons were never used.

right? and when we had a reason to run dungeons despite being fully raid geared… those were absolutely speed runs. as in “pull all trash to the boss, aoe them all down together, repeat”. tanks didn’t need a healer at all. i went through entire dungeons on my brm taking less damage total than my health pool.

i have no idea where people get the idea that h/m0 dungeons were relevant until the introduction of m+