Oh I totally understand this. It’s just like when people talk about how “ummm the night elves get so much development” while ignoring what that “”“development”“” even is, people trying to pretend the night elves aren’t punching bags, or yeah “ashenvale” or “Tyrande” things like “wow tyrande got that cutscene where she fights sylvanas, what more do you want!?!” kind of thing. It’s annoying to constantly have these arguments over and over.
Yeah, and these are very reasonable suggestions and things I would be extremely happy with. I think you’re even going above and beyond by saying the surrounding areas should be uncontested for the worgen, even just keep silverpine as horde only but rebuild the gilnean wall, I think a lot of people just want the gilnean city. Your suggestions are more than fair.
I think it’s good to talk about this even if we get a little heated we need to let it out from time to time, but I think your suggestions for the night elves and wogen are actually great and things that I would actually be happy to see. <3
We just buy them at the store like any regular humanoid would buy their footshoes
Now I will spend the rest of my long night feeling like a jerk because I was a jerk. And then I’ll think “maybe I should double aplogize. Doubling things is better, right?” And then realize that isn’t how anything works, doubling is usually bad if it isn’t money, and go back to stressing.
But that’s because I’m crashing from the rage and feeling extra sensitive (double sensitive???).
Other than my insecurities, yes, we’re all moving on from my episode!!
You clearly needed this, so it’s good that you got it out of your system. Holding it inside without expressing it would not make your anger go away, things could probably get worse.
And no hard feelings from anyone apparently , so try not to worry too much!
Don’t feel bad for getting passionate on the forums, complementing people here is not something I really do much, but you’re a great person and my favorite poster, even if you are more passionate about the horde story. I think after spending a lot of time on the forums makes me a lot more cynical but your posts at least make me a little less so. So don’t feel bad about anything, everyone here is upset with the story for different reasons and we have to let it out…especially after we continually have these same debates that mostly just end with frustration.
The horde can help them by stopping their invasion and leaving Ashenvale, they don’t have to kill off horde, they can give them the option to withdrawal to show their commitment to peace or the horde can proactively do that. That would just be a way to show the horde has actually changed.
Even if the Horde peacefully leaves.
The NEs are shattered as a country, what security do they possess?
Canonically speaking how many times has the Horde invaded and killed them despite yet another peace treaty? Do NEs even feel safe sleeping in their homes? What assurances are there that Tyrande and Alliance haven taken that the Horde can’t and won’t invade again while NEs recover?
Or is the NE survival dependent on the mercy of the Horde canonically?
Not to speak for anyone here, but as a bi-factional player (obviously Horde main) I don’t see a scenario where the night elves would or even should accept Horde help. Not any time in the near future at any rate.
Ashenvale has been the battleground for every single Horde-Night Elf conflict since Vanilla, complete with an actual battleground. Darkshore has been assaulted twice, and while the first time met little success, we all saw what happened the second time.
Asking the night elves to trust the Horde to help is an awful big ask at the moment. It’s like when some guy punches you in the face, then does it again, do you trust him when he offers a hand to help you back on your feet?
Trust has been broken already here. It should take time before it’s restored. And maybe the first step just isn’t helping rebuild their defenses, which we’d conveniently happen to know where they’re located in the unlikely event Gallywix comes back and somehow ends up Warchief.
With the current blizzard developers and their hatred for the night elves, I don’t think anything will make the night elves safe or secure. If they can burn a living magical tree (I assume living in Cali they assume living trees burn easily because of the wild fires there because of dead and dried out trees), nothing is really going to make the night elves secure. Hell even in Wolfheart the orcs were outmaneuvering the night elves with guerilla tactics in Ashenvale AT NIGHT. Their desire to use night elves as punching bags runs deep and likely isn’t going to change. A peaceful and healing ashenvale is what I want to see at least once…
I’m more than happy to have our forces head back to Orgrimmar. Heck I’m more than happy to send our folks to do heavy lifting of objects for building a new city for Night Elves. Taurens and Orcs are pretty strong manual labor. (Edit - fair point earlier, maybe just the Taurens since … Orcs … but that’s a Night Elf choice)
I would love these storylines. We can have Vulpera running around trying to get items. Heck we can make our own little construction crew to build homes for every displaced Alliance race.
Yes the Alliance gains things, but not at the expense of us getting kicked even more than we have been.
Even if Blizzard remakes Ashenvale with everything restored and peaceful it wouldn’t mean much without actual canonical security.
How will the NEs ever survive the next Horde blow? How many times can they survive yet another Horde invasion hellbent on wiping them out and taking their land?
Even if in the game we never see another Horde attack.
I’m’a advocate for Mara, even though her words advocate for herself better.
Mara’s not one of them “rabid anti-Horde Alliance fans”. Mara’s more like the Alliance version of what I try to be; definitely a greater affinity for their preferred faction, but aware of and sympathetic to the other.
Mara’s got very well-thought-out takes and ideas. We’re almost always on the same page on things.
Yes! I mean they don’t really have to help out withdrawing from ashenvale would be the biggest throne out of the side of the night elves, but I can see some horde players actually wanting to help out as well and maybe if they really want to help out fix some of the damage as a kind of way to show they’ve changed, we could do stuff through like hamuul helping to heal and regrow the forest, in ashenvale etc. I think your ideas are great too and it can give horde players a much more positive message too.
Yeah, if it’s another story like WoT that the developers want to do they are going to do it, security or not. We are all at the whims of the developers and it’s like until there is a shift of how they view night elves, nothing positive is really going to happen for them.
Hehe thanks! I try but sometimes these debates wear on me talking about the same things over and over, when I guess people aren’t really seeing it from another perspective or value different things in the story. Some people I will have no patience with and they are usually the bad faith actors who try to stir up trouble, but I think most people here all just want to have a fun and enjoyable story experience, not one where you are either victimized or playing the part of the victimizer.
I honestly do not think this type of story will ever happen again for the night elves at least.
They are done and learned their lesson but what they did has lore repercussions… basically the Night Elves are at the mercy of the Horde and they are doomed to extinction if nothing changes.
Its now canon that the Horde sooner or later WILL invade and it WILL be devastating.
NEs don’t have the same numbers anymore and their borders are too easily overcome.
They live or die by Horde’s mercy and honestly after the Burning they could use something more to make up for all this.
While a scene where the Horde soldiers who were slaughtering them couple patches ago is now building wooden houses and distributing water bottles is indeed “heart warming” I don’t think thats what the NEs need. Sounds more like what the Horde needs to say they made amends and move on from the whole business.
This is what I’ve told myself for most expansions since Cataclysm. I will only ever believe it when it’s implemented in game. Think about this question asked at Blizzcon
Metzen seemed pretty passionate about Tyrande, but then we get ALP in MoP. It’s probably not his fault as I think he genuinely likes these characters, but I’m sure that dislike for night elves in the general developer team overwrite any passion he may or may not have had about them.
This thread was from 2019
It’s good to look back at them and see how the current developers continually screw them over. I will only believe they learned any kind of lesson when I see it in game, and not before.
Oh yeah, I think space from the horde is what would be needed for now, but maybe if they really wanted to there could be some help through Hamuul even if it’s minor and it’s more for the horde PC over the entire horde pitching in.
Tyrande should build a wall and make the Horde pay of it.
Honestly, if there is ever a revamp it would be nice to see Alliance is proactive in their own defense.
Yeah… i know been there had to live through all the promises of “ITS COMING” and nothing materialized. But honestly after BFA and Shadowlands? I doubt the writers would be touching anything in Kalimdor where the Horde and Night Elves are concerned.
It would be insane… they just got out of this current mess.
I don’t think we will see anything besides empty promises.
The Horde is still a massive threat… but it isn’t trust us. They have a council now and that means the same people that followed not ONE but TWO genocidal warchiefs will not meekly stand by!
All Night Elf legitimate grievances? Ignored? Why yes please right this way Horde druids. We reserved a table for you.
And of course renewal. Whatever the hell that means.
You won’t see this, and that will never stop me. I’m the Unstoppable Alynsa!!
This is why I prefer a Night Elf - Horde armistice to involve the Horde completely withdrawing from not just Ashenvale, but also Azshara. Presumably with this, the Horde collapses the Azshara-Orgrimmar gate to seal off access that way.
With that, the Horde really only has two ways to reach the night elves ever again; the bridge over the Southfury river (which is a silly and dumb path to war, given the bridge can just be sabotaged, and the path up from there to Ashenvale proper is pretty narrow) or coming up from the Barrens (a more viable route, but also predictable). It’s not foolproof or eternal safety, but it’s easier for the night elves to observe and keep track of, so they’d notice any build-up for war in advance.
And let’s face it. The whole lumber shortage Orgrimmar faces should be well sorted by now. With Horde territories on four continents, most of which are set near or directly in forests, lumber mills should be running 'round the clock to keep the orcs well-fed on lumber. The need to invade elf lands should by now be nonexistent beyond a bad warchief with a pyromaniac streak taking charge again.
A side benefit of this is largely isolating the Horde and the Alliance from one another. The two factions frankly need a break from one another. They need to develop their own stories, grow in their own ways, without interfering with one another.
I’ll admit I was trolling a little bit back there, but after reading through some of those ideas and concepts, quite a few were actually pretty good, a shame Blizzard can’t seem to utilize this kind of creativity anymore.
