The issue with the Horde is that there are two minds regarding it, and that comes through in the writing. It started as far back as Cataclysm but become worse as time went on and the newer writers or the writers with less… care for the original WoW vision based on WC3.
There is a favouritism for the Horde that comes through in the writing, but it’s not the Horde as we consider it. The writers like ‘metal’ things, bad guys as good guys, Conan the Barbarian without any of the nuance type deal. They want the bloodthirsty Orcs to win over the sissy elves, they want a zombie army coming in to wipe out the white knights. The how and the why doesn’t really matter, especially since they know some of the fans of those races will try and cope with the events, just long enough for them to be able to write what they want and then move on.
Of course the problem is that the majority of players who like the Horde don’t like this.
The Horde is supposed to be a heroic faction, same as the Alliance, and so the writers then frantically backtrack and try to frame actions taken against the Horde as equal in scope.
As a result, in a story sense, the Alliance loses a hell of a lot more, but in a thematic and meta sense, the Horde gets eroded and loses as well. This is especially true for racial identity and history, which has been messed with and basically ruined for a lot of races but Horde races (except goblins, weirdly) tend to take it on the chin.
There has always been a divide between Metzen’s vision for the races of Azeroth, and what his team wanted to read into them. The erratic back and forth in behavior for much of the game’s history was these two forces clashing to one degree or another.
You are certainly right, though. That still reflects to this day as the old guard found Maldraxxus the most fun to work on as it was “ultra metal on steriods”.
Thats why I think a covenant based conflict narrative should be a future focus for the game we have (I think the 2 faction system is superior, but the game has moved on independent of that system).
SL covenants (and a number of other systems) seem a lot like covert testing… social experiments. In a future iteration, covenants can be the focus of conflict, replacing factions and being disconnected from race. (As an aside, I think limited racial restrictions for covenants could be cool). If we were introduced to some cross faction sub factions in which membership would be exclusive, but tied only to narrative and world pvp, using those sub factions in the future conflict narrative would feel better. Don’t try to be too subtle either. Dont try to trick me into joining the villain faction only to surprise me with their villainy later. I will enjoy putting my npc enemies in concentration camps in world quests, on certain characters anyway. Feel free to call them the Backstabbers. We’ll all get the idea.
I didnt get that. Everything in Maldraxxus and the Maw seemed derivative. Maldraxxus seemed to be an homage or plagiarism to the OG scourge, and the maw seemed to be the same for Icecrown. It was so blatant that it seemed like a story point (and still does seem to suggest something about the original narrative.) In other words, I think that Maldraxxus and the Maw look like wrath and pre wrath stuff because that was the cheat sheet they used. Not because it had Metzen nor Samwise doing the concept art.
I do not see that as favoritism of the horde, but more as a favoritism for the alliance. They want to write for the alliance and horde fits that evil narrative in their head. Then in the end they like oh ya we can’t get rid of playable faction or take away zones due to questing. They can’t kill of that many characters either, because the horde doesn’t have many. They literally do not have anything more to take away.
I do agree the newer writer do not have the dame vision for the horde as original devs did. Either horde is evil or just not included.
I know you don’t like the direction they went with the story but the effort and content that was made for the Horde is undeniable in BFA.
Meanwhile Shadowlands is a meandering mess designed to pander to one single character. Sylvanas.
I will agree Zandalar questing outside of the faction conflict was very good. The city was a mess, having to take flight paths for simple things. Heard they made it as a raid first so things were everywhere. However it looked cool and great to see trolls get some shine outside of raids. Kul Tiras questing was also great, and the city was nicely laid out.
I do not know what direction they are taking with the horde. So far they ruined what the faction was and there is no coming back from this. As a player who always mained horde, I can’t even say we are a good faction any more.
Its actually pricesly the faction war that the Horde got the most stuff. They got unique storylines with Saurfang, two story routes, cinematics both ingame and out, the entire narrative followed them and their actions and in the end it was the Horde ending the war on their own terms.
The Horde got a revamp, characters like Rexxar or Voss actually fully joined rather be paid contractors.
I mean besides Andiun and Jaina being everywhere all the time I have no clue what is going on with the Alliance. Is it an alliance? Is it an empire? Its just wierd.
Voss isn’t horde, she is loyal to andiun. I think the story flows though both factions, it was thanks to Genn’s actions that everyone got on board for the war. Guess I can get behind the ending, very least we didn’t get another civil war.
I am not sure what the alliance is anymore either. They need to take a step away from world ending events and focus on local zone threats. This way we will get more development for both factions.
For that I agree I feel like they were so excited to tell this super awesome story for the Horde with big moments and cinematics which lets be honest was another ripoff of their older stories that they knew were successful.
They were probably so sure that this was so good they didn’t even wait to consider the implication of treading these waters again and what they literally had to burn down to make it happen.
Boralus is a superior city. It has areas that seem specifically included simply for Alliance roleplay. I wouldnt be surprised if content got cut from both BfA and SL that tied together important threads from Alliance only questing, specifically regarding the drust, and the Old God stuff. Which is a shame but that doesnt mean that the effort wasnt put in. It is, at its foundations, a maritime themed expansion, and the Kul Tirans are the considerably more maritime themed race. It is disappointing that they felt the content they needed to keep was the main Sylvanas and N’zoth content, but if you have to cut something, it can’t be the villains or you don’t have a game. Complaining about it is like saying that Legend of Zelda puts too much focus on Gannon.
So what Im trying to say is, horde effort and content wasnt better or more than alliance content. Villain content was, and it just so happens that the Horde leader was the villain. I mean, we didnt even get enough content for Sylvanas and they had to release a full length novel to fill in the blanks.
And if it was in many ways about introducing Dark Rangers as playable, would you have preferred that, perhaps they be horde exclusive? We’ve been asking for Dark Rangers for a long time, and it looks like we’ll be getting them on both sides and none of that would have been possible without effectively sacrificing Sylvanas on the altar of Alliance equality.
Liking Zandalar or Boralus is really up to you and this was the art departments design direction.
quest content, the cinematics, the fact that the first raid was entirely about the Horde and alliance was somehow there with Bran… I didn’t even know what the heck a Ghunn was until I started playing the Horde content.
You can’t ignore all that with just “yeah but boralus looks nicer”
Sure. I never wanted or cared about dark rangers.
I want Wardens.
The faction war was almost non existant outside of war table stuff and a couple warfronts. The alliance won both warfronts.
Saurfang left the horde at the beginning of BfA.
The Loyalist questline was a consolation, The Alliance got an unredeemed Sylvanas likely for the same reason by the time we got to SL.
What the heck are you talking about?
Thats just false. A good portion of the narrative followed Sylvanas, because she was already made a villain at prepatch. And she wasnt even in Zandalar. They had to show the players what was happening with her.
It isn’t Voss, but Valeera who is loyal to Anduin. However, many considered Voss to be neutral until the events of BFA made her officially Horde. Arguably sooner if you take into account Legion’s rogue campaign.
Oh your right, Voss in the forsaken. Ya really glad she got some screen time. Was hoping she would be the next forsaken leader, she best fits the racial theme.
So? It doesn’t make the cinematics about this Horde character and his journey any less horde centric. I would have loved to have some cinematics about the Alliance and the Night Elves. We didn’t get anything much in the way of that.
Its still extra stuff the Horde got.
Saurfang cinematics, the extra quests concerning him and the rebellion questline that was exclusively Horde content.
Thats exactly what I said. Horde and Sylvanas are one and the same in BFA.
Dazar’alor may be more spread out but I can wander all over it without accidentally wandering into an area rife with mobs who then proceed to beat the tar out of me and take my lunch money.
This talk about the capitals and gameplay stuff is a red herring, however. We’re talking about story here, not perceived slights towards a given faction.
Edit: I replied to the wrong thing. All three of my brain cells are very overworked, apparently.