If you want to look to the past, we have talked about “The evil, Horde” and “The Alliance had a right to do those things” memes until we are blue in the face.
The bottom line is that Blizzard has shown that don’t have anything for the Horde that isn’t being the foes of the Alliance. Nothing will change until that changes.
At least nothing that is major plot. There’s lots of small stuff. But it is small stuff compared to huge horde aggression displayed in the game.
I do think we need to see some alliance aggression in the game as major plot. And it doesn’t have to be an “all alliance are now bad guys” narrative either. Just show some major lore characters do an evil and have to answer for it.
The Horde ravaged the zone. Nothing to brag about.
Mana bomb. War crime.
Forsaken blight. War crime.
But that’s entirely another problem. The map is basically frozen in Cataclysm, so of course it won’t reflect much of what we’re talking about here.
Well, back to my answer. I don’t care about that. I don’t want any specific Horde win over the Alliance, I want a major shift in how they write the Horde (its identity, its place in the narrative, its place on Azeroth in regards to the Alliance).
However, if you really want me to give you an example of a Horde win I’d like to witness, I’d say some form of retribution for the humiliation the Zandalari suffered would be much needed.
I don’t. There are many problems with the writing of the Alliance too, but they’re of a different nature.
Yeah that’s what it feels like. Or else, they wouldn’t have made the so-called “Loyalist route” in BfA so… frustrating ? Punitive ? Bad ???
Are we? I am convinced that the current lore team can’t write anything for the horde without making them the villains. Have you noticed how little of a presence we have in shadowlands and legion? They purposely do not explore horde lore, take shadowlands for example. You would think they would use shamans and their connection to spirits or spirit walker and their connection to their ancestors. I am still shocked it is not in there.
Thrall is on the council and leading the orcs. I feel hopeful that the Horde villain baiting has stopped.
Do you REALLY want that? After witnessing the entire NE belief system getting dunked on and Elune being mostly incompetent?
I don’t think y’all would’ve like what blizz would’ve done if they explored the other religions 
Even if it has which I doubt, since its a mandatory feature of blizzard narratives, that just leaves the horde as apologetic puppies without a story of their own.
The faction LARPing and false dichotomy that drowns these threads is sad.
i mean, they have confirmed Elune’s realness and haven’t stolen her away from the Night Elves to give her to like the Goblins or something. Or singled her out for derision in one of their latest books?
I really appreciated how after the Tauren heritage quest was this meaningless vague set up for SL or something with a teaser of Cairne saying he’d see Baine later only to have Baine be all “Nah, I know dad’s always with me, we don’t need to actual tell any Tauren stories that don’t involve humans.”
No. They just made her look incompetent instead.
“Faction dichotomy” is what we all signed up for, in some way. And I see no “faction LARPing” here, merely involvement.
I’m still waiting for some Horde characters to show up this xpac. Anduin, Jaina and Tyrande have shown up multiple times and every time Baine and Thrall are either not around or holding the fort.
This happens every god damn time there’s a non-faction war xpac.
Meta discussions are incompatible with participants who think the game, characters, or stories are reality. Confining said meta discussions to exactly two extreme options is not conducive to meta discussions.
Yes I would take the entire Elune arc, it is better then just being ignored. Like they have a connection to the dead you go to the realm of the dead…
You are still not telling me what you want. What does a retribution for the Zandalari even look like?
Probably looks like someone being held accountable for killing King Rastakhan at the very least. Can’t really do that to the players, so it would have to be Genn or Jaina (or both—there were a lot of troll bodies on the ground by the time they left) if we’re keeping things within the realm of practicality and reason.
Having said that, good luck getting Jaina to do anything she doesn’t want to do, and (probably) good luck getting Baine or Thrall to sign off on it.
What would be adequate “retribution” for a “humiliation”
Ironforge.
Blizzard has way of pushing the narrative to make horde evil.
Garrosh was honorable at one point, he even killed his own commanders for bombing a school. Voljin was the warcheif who got axed out of the blue for sylvanas.
But i still have not see blizzard write anything for the horde outside of faction wars.
When the writers decide to let it.
But, hey, you’ve got plenty of former Alliance in the Horde to lead you. Between Lor’themar and Calia, and then Baine being part of the Anduin fan-club while Thrall is starting to look at Jaina with, ‘What If,’ floating around in his head, on top of Gazlowe having been running a neutral portal for ages… I mean, you guys should be set.
Guess all the Horde needed to be self-sufficient and governing was for the Alliance to lead, and for all actual elements of Horde culture to be stripped away through repeat wars.
. . .
I thought we’d already done that story with Thrall being raised by humans?