I’ve given up on trying to explain to him that something isn’t a loss because it wasn’t completely perfect.
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Well with the BFA being concluded the way it is what is wrong with a return to that? The opposite faction races treat Horde NPCs or maybe players with disdain.
Alliance starts doing bad stuff too that the Horde player participates in stopping.
A return of a “new” Burning Blade Horde faction that wants a return of the Old Horde with demons, enslaved dragons and all the other good stuff that the new Horde disowned.
It seems like we are now at the perfect world setup to renew the old identities from Vanilla but with more recent events shaping the game events rather than 20 years ago stuff.
I just don’t get this “I don’t want to be shamed or lectured”… like dude you are playing a faction with a deep dark recent history how could you not expect the gameworld to awknowledge that? If it bothers you then go play Alliance where everyone loves you.
Because CDEV
Because they have never shown that they can stick with an Alliance character just being an actual threat to the Horde. It has always turned around into “And that’s why despite this looking horrible at first this atrocity was actually the moral thing to do”
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When do alliance players get to feel good? Maybe some do, just like some horde players loved the burning, you see people making jokes about it all the time, doesn’t mean it’s a majority.
I’ll say as someone who likes the night elves, they have been fodder and brutalized since Cataclysm, I would say more so than any other race. Cata we get them losing territory in Ashenvale (horde building a nice base right above Astranaar, losing silverwind refugee, horde expanding their bases), losing Azshara. We then have to kill the night elves who the horde displaced in ashenvale with the druids of the flame, more victim blaming, they had nowhere to turn because Malfurion didn’t bother to protect ashenvale, so we had to kill them (standard trope for blizzard for victims to go crazy and needing to be killed off). Can keep going into how Tyrande was portrayed and how the “hush tyrande” meme persisted so much.
Mop, we got Tyrande showing up so Varian could look good and teach her patience, you know the 10k+ year old leader who waited patiently for Malfurion. We got to see the horde walk into Darnassus and steal the divine bell (a scenario that was originally planned to be much worse for the night elves, but the devs got to destroy teldrassil in BfA so I’m sure they are happy), where Sarannha Skyglaiv was kind of shown to be a tougher sentinel, that you felt was suppose to make the night elves feel tougher again, she gets killed off (as blizzard likes to do to the tougher female night elves, build them up a bit and then kill them off) but not before she randomly tells the horde where the bell is. Don’t forget Tyrande giving the horde Azshara with the understanding that the horde would stop invading ashenvale, that worked out great.
WoD not much but they had us spend a lot of time saving garona but then where was that same desire to save Cordana? Legion, they made malfurion and tyrande look like annoying jokes in Valshara, then the nightborne joining the horde just because thalyssra
was still upset at what tyrande said to her initially.
Then obviously BfA where they just basically wipe out the night elves and their home so they can develop Saurfang? The night elves getting raised by the horde after being killed by the horde to serve the horde and continue the genocide of the night elves in 8.1 felt EXTREMELY bad. There are tons more examples, these are just off the top of my head about how badly the night elves have been treated, and “wait and see” has been the mantra for night elves since cataclysm, we wait but we never see. Oh yeah, and exploring kalimdor where darkshore is now completely destroyed and devoid of life! That was a great addition and not another middle finger to the night elves.
You’re one of my favorite posters, but the night elves being able to get something out of what the horde did to them (whether or not the players liked what happened to the night elves) is not something unreasonable. Just like the horde asking to not have their leaders killed off or not be the bad guys is not unreasonable. These stories need some conclusion, but this isn’t a player problem, this is on the shoulders of the devs incompetence because they aren’t able to think things through.
Is Ashenvale so important to the horde? Is invading Ashenvale after BfA a good look for the horde if they no longer want to be the bad guys? Why is the night elves going into and retaking even some of ashenvale and healing it a bad thing? Why should the aggressive horde forces face no consequences and continue to reap the benefits of the wot? This doesn’t even have to involve horde players. This is not about horde players, it’s about night elves getting something out of this fiasco and being something other than victims in this story. Why is that an absurd request after what the horde JUST did to them last expansion?
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If the argument against a continuity solution is CDEVs will mess it up how does a “this was all a dream” solve anything?
We are just back to another Horde attack on an Alliance school for puppies and babies Season 2 episode 1.
Because CDEV is gonna CDEV.
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Because it’s easier for them. And maybe they’ll learn the lesson not to completely paint themselves into a corner with a plot they can’t pull off properly.
Teldrassil and how they did it was too big. The abandoned druid school was actually handled in the story, and isn’t still looming over everything.
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I have no qualms about this one bit. Get your restitution. Kill off a bunch of non-aligned NPCs and get your city back. Let the Night Elves build themselves some stuff. We’ll even send help.
Just don’t want to have to keep having the crap kicked out of the Horde and being scolded for an expansion for picking a faction.
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The Alliance player literally never sees a resolution to this. Just a “well I guess we lost, off you go to the next quest hub.”
That actually happened to the Alliance on 3 or 4 separate occasions during Cataclysm. You do quests, lose, the zone is on fire, you’re told you lost and to run away to a new quest hub/zone, and it’s never spoken of again.
Westfall is still on fire.
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Ok?
Have I said that the Alliance doesn’t have problems too?
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Like how they confidently said they will do MoP better and still eff’d it up.
Dude come on if they did it before then they will do it again easier or not… like we went from kumbaya lets work together Legion to Horde goes crazy again.
If the argument is CDEV is going to CDEV no amount hallicunation is going to stop them.
But answer my question.
Post BFA we have the perfect setup for both factions re-discover their old identities that Vanilla introduced. Agreed or not? It seems like a great place to start fresh while acknowledging the issues of before.
Maybe for Horde players… Alliance players were completely let down with this whole questline.
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No but you claimed it was resolved, which for the Alliance it never has been.
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I was talking about retconning back to Legion because they can’t fix the problems they caused with the disaster of a story they wrote.
But that still leaves Gilneas. How do you plan on fixing that issue hmm? 
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I dunno if I put it here earlier, but think it could be a good contested zone with the city itself as an Alliance town in it. Seems like a good place for some conflict, and Genn’s always good for a fight.
Got no issue with it, plus that’s got older beef behind it than just Teldrassil, so it wouldn’t need to be connected to that mess.
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I could work with that. Long as as the city itself is under alliance control. With the forsaken and their abominations fighting worgen and the ettins?
Now…that’s something I could get behind if it was implemented in a cool way
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Forsaken occupy Gilneas after BFA.
Genn and Worgen attack them and push them out.
After investigating documents after the battle it turns out they were refugees.
They don’t. Alot of these supposed Alliance sypathetic posters are perfectly okay maintaining the existing 12 year status quo of a sub par Alliance experience, admitted by Blizzard themselves, and do not want them to attempt to fix it in any manner at all. Because to do so would effect the Horde experience in some manner, and they can’t have that, screw the fact that they already did that to the Alliance and it’s existed for 12 years now. We are not allowed resolutions because of Horde player feelings.
Read above, they outright said as much and tried to make it come off as sympathizing with an Alliance player.
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Legion? It was all y’all. Nothing bad happened to you after the prepatch. Your guys kicked the Burning Legion’s tail. Your guys got to be front and center. Your guys got some resolution.
We got Garrosh. Checkmate.
Didn’t happen. The Horde had to ninja sneak in. There was no walking, and downplaying this will not work with me.
We lost plenty of named NPCs in MoP. You lost one literally created to die. Checkmate.
We did the same, guided by Alliance-affiliated characters.
Any complaints y’all have here will literally sound pretty petty compared to orcs, who had a pretty big bone to pick with the Legion, didn’t even have a representative. and, like, the entire expansion is filled to the brim with Alliance-adjacent characters.
Y’all think Saurfang was developed.
Rofl.
Saurfang went from a pinnacle of what it meant to be Honor Horde into a “too tired for this ish” war criminal who died.
Y’all on something here. All Saurfang got was de-Saur-fanged and dead.
You’re one of mine too, don’t think my unbridled anger changes that.
Back to AngryLynsa tho.
Except the way y’all want to propose these things makes them mutually exclusive. The Horde must suffer more so the Alliance can suffer less.
And for what? What end goal does this zero-sum game reach? Night elves will still have a legitimate grudge, even if they kill off 50% of every Horde NPC in the game. Their issues aren’t suddenly resolved by kicking the Horde out of Kalimdor. They have a very slight measure of vengeance at best, and all it costs is continuing the horrible narrative choices that have all-but destroyed the Horde.
Y’asll keep saying my enjoyment doesn’t trump yours, and you’re right. But that isn’t at all what you’re asking for.
Because while it was absolutely crappy, while it was completely out of touch, while it was beyond any argument a horrible decision… You guys did get something. Sylvanas in the Maw. And it’s not enough.
But we got literally nothing. Sylvanas in the Maw doesn’t replace the last OG racial leader turning evil. She’s still just gone, and we still don’t have an official replacement besides Voss doing the job for now (her words). It doesn’t tie up any loose ends with the ongoing “Horde moral crisis”. We haven’t gotten any resolution beyond Saurfang dying so Sylvanas can leave, and now the musical chair of the Warchief is an ambiguous council.
But see, it is.
Teldrassil being burned down is on the devs, but it’s clearly a player problem because we’re the players, and we are fighting over it. I could literally go on for days and have a dozen posts going into detail regarding this, but while the decision was the devs’ to make, it is ours to deal with, to discuss, to suggest resolutions for.
And my problem is I’m tired of paying money to log into a game that reminds me I’m evil now, just because other players need my faction to fulfill that roll in an ongoing sense for them to have any satisfaction.
It’s not my experience trumps yours. I’m not the one asking for a better experience at the expense of your’s. I’m just the one here saying please stop arguing to make mine worse still for your benefit.
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I’m used to false sympathies from horde players. I known most of them don’t actually care about the worgen or night elf community getting a satisfying resolution
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Even better, move the conflict right outside the gates. Between Pyrewood Village and Ambermill, both former Gilnean areas.
Maybe I’m asking too much though…yeah I wouldn’t mind your suggestion. At this point, after so long, I’ll take everything, even a single flight path in Greymane Manor with Genn as the only NPC in it.
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