Am honestly a little confused that there appear to be people who only ever play one side- you really should play both factions, so you can understand why everyone is disappointed.
5 Likes
I play both factions, but the problems of the Horde can be solved INTERNALLY, but the problems of the Alliance that arose can never be solved again without the Horde, the loss of image as a weak and incompetent dumb faction can not dissolve…will not dissolve…
The Horde as a Warmonger…that is a purely internal problem, that can be solved over time, but the Alliance can’t be fixed so easily because there are A) internal and B) external problems.
Understanding this difference is at the core of what the problem is. And not seeing it is frankly ignorance.
2 Likes
I play both factions but I sympathize with Alliance story elements far more than I do with the Horde.
Horde is way too contrarian to my liking and they constantly lie.
“Oh they hate us because we are different”
LIKE REALLY? IS THAT WHY THEY HATE YOU???
So I am just rolling my eyes most of the time or chuckling at the joke quests they make.
3 Likes
I’m not opposed to it, I just can’t do the alt thing really. I don’t have the patience to go back and do much of the same content again until a good chunk of time has passed.
Absolutely!
In high definition we get to watch Tyrande wrap Turalyon in roots and then rip him apart. Then bounce out to go find a way from the Emerald dream to the Pantheon of Life for her ultimate plan to unveil.
We also get to see Turalyon pondering his fate and remarking about how awful the Alliance has become in the aftermath of burning the civilians of Quel’thalas, how the response to genocide being more genocide will just end up destroying Azeroth and leaving everyone with no honor. And even consider how the Alliance put Orcs in concentration camps, shunned and burned Forsaken, and comment about how much of the Alliance history is rooted in evil and conflicts caused by just seeing the Horde as monsters instead of people.
He even can have a plucky sidekick cheer him up!
Obviously we’ll also throw in some in-game cinematics as well, but the high def ones are really fun. Seriously, Blizzard does amazing things with them and I am always amazed.
You can get Magni back as Alynsa mentioned. And Turalyon’s story clearly has to be about reclaiming honor from the part of the Alliance that has abandoned their morals and followed through with their more base nature, treating the Horde as monsters, because they’re different which he blames for leading to so many more conflicts.
No no no no, you don’t understand. They have to be left unresolved, otherwise it’s more storytelling about the Horde. They have to be just left as a hanging thread - no home, no story, nothing.
6 Likes
Don’t forget the one where Turalyon has decided his best move is to let himself rot in a Horde prison until Baine comes along with a pep talk that finally motivates him to take action.
9 Likes
Oh, oh!! And then Turalyon can choose to hide in Dustwallow Marsh instead of doing anything relevant, until a plucky Alliance hero stops some sentinels from murdering him after guidance from a gnome with a tazer (for zapping, obviously)!!
Sadly, poor Mechatorque also turns evil (we all know he secretly is, because what lunatic stores toxic waste in their own underground city) and runs off, paving the way for Addie Fizzlebog to become the new leader of the gnomes.
And it WILL be Addie, because she is best gnome. This is not up for debate or bargaining.
8 Likes
Though, honestly what most alliance players want is just terribad. Where as people like me actual do want the monster race(the worgen) to be……well actual monsters 
So you are not even going to explore the inner conflict of Turalyon and his belief in the Light? Not explore the foreshadowing of Alleria destroying the Sunwell as well as her people? What would the Pantheon of Life have to do with the Sunwell anyway?
You could definitely rewrite this entire scenario and achieve the same results.
In stead you opt for a complete plagiarization of what BFA offered, with the same story beats but even a more incomprehensible cast of characters and motivations?
Tyrande killing Turalyon? What for? A conflict between shadow and light has already been hinted at. Why not have Alleria kill her own husband? The trusty side kick could be his own son that Turalyon is finally re-united with.
Alleria is already fighting the whispers, the story already set up a foreshadowing of outside forces trying to manipulate her.
If Sylvanas was manipulated then why not Alleria?
We can keep the other things though, Alleria corrupting and destroying her home, Turalyon reflecting on millenia of war that he had to live through and now this conflict within himself and the Light as well as his own wife and her conflict with Shadow.
Their son representing the best of both of them having to watch it all fall apart.
Yeah I think that could work.
I like the sound of that. How about you?
2 Likes
Has a history of demanding the Horde Package.
Sees what the Horde Package looks like.
Wants the Horde Package, but without the actual Horde Baggage that makes up 80% of the Horde Package.
Because parity.
11 Likes
The whole point of my comments were that folks mentioned wanting to kick the Horde in the teeth, especially after the Horde got so much content in BFA.
I displayed how much fun they could have getting their version of BFA, then added that afterwards, the Horde gets to kick them in the teeth. Just to point out how silly that concept is when 1) BFA sucked for the Horde; 2) Getting your teeth kicked in after watching stupidity and losing everywhere isn’t fun.
Basically.
13 Likes
Just wanna play devils advocate and mention that two specific alliance races never got closure after horde aggression took both their cities and committed a genocide against the other.
Do you get why night elf and worgen communities just want some sort of satisfying conclusion?
8 Likes
No I got that but you are going about it the wrong way.
The Alliance was never about banding together in name of honor. Its an alliance of convenience with the Light playing a big role for most of its races while the Night Elves and Gnomes have their own thing.
If you really wanted to beat down the Alliance’s identity then you need to use the right tools otherwise its not relevant at all.
The Light becoming something bad and evil for Draenei? For Humans and Dwarves? Thats a huge deal after so much of their identity and themes are based on the Light.
You could really lean hard into the Empire and an Alliance that is no longer convenient and breaking at the seams to break the Alliance… if that is you want to do the whole inner conflict storyline in wake of a trajedy.
As much as you didn’t like retreading the same paths in BFA with Saurfang and Sylvanas those themes are actually relevant to the Horde. Part of their identity is linked to their very dark past and their attempts to move away from it and be better. Thats their identity and Blizzard has beaten it bloody.
For Alliance though? None of that is relevant. So why are you trying to write a story that doesn’t work? Why would a plagiarized Horde story work in an Alliance story?
We need an Alliance character to die by another Alliance character’s hand.
We also need Alliance to commit a huge crime and cause a split within it.
There is a need to destroy the current Alliance identity or really beat it down for some dumb new version.
Those can be done just as they were done to the Horde but you got to go about it differently. The equivalent of your suggestion would be if BFA was about Saurfangs love of religion and how Sylvanas was a horrible athiest and she was ruining everything at the church of doomhammer.
I got no problem doing a ‘retaking Gilneas’ storyline, nor revamping Mount Hyjal into an Alliance-only Nelf starter zone- the new city is built around the pool beneath the tree, turn the Molten Front or Firelands into a starter dungeon ala Ragefire Chasm in Org maybe?
Complaining about it to other players is a waste of time though, even the sympathetic ones.
3 Likes
I don’t think anyone doesn’t get it. Not really, when they aren’t being trolly.
The problem is, a substantial number of Horde players are just done with being the baddies. And resolving either the night elves or worgen stories with any degree of satisfaction requires the Horde being the baddies, or is just a token resolution (which the nelves already got, and it was bad).
How do you let Genn get one back at the forsaken for kicking his people out of their home without actually involving the forsaken? How do the night elves get resolution for Teldrassil without, y’know, getting resolution for Teldrassil?
Sure, you can give them both new homes. But their issues aren’t just “we are homeless now”. Restoring Gilneas or regrowing Teldrassil (or settling on Hyjal, or any number of offered options) doesn’t resolve their actual conflict.
So all that’s left for them to get their resolution is to, for the third time, make the Horde the villains in the Alliance narrative. And that’s not even a bitter pill for the Horde to swallow; it’s a cyanide capsule we’re forced to swallow because the Alliance needs it.
9 Likes
This. You can’t just have genocide committed against them and then not give them any kind of follow up. It’s like “oh but they won darkshore off screen, but with the caveat that it’s completely destroyed and devoid of life :)”, like what? Blizzard already screwed up by making the genocide of the night elves more of a “Saurfang sad” story instead of giving way more screen time too the night elves who suffered the most during that expansion.
Then because of how terribly they handled it in BfA they follow up with Tyrande being pointless to the shadowlands plot and ruining elune, it’s probably that the actual Tyrande storyline got cut with the lost patch, but that just makes it worse because that’s the stuff that they thought would be the least relevant to the story anyway. But why not give them some kind of conclusion to this instead of continuing to either ignore them or give them token appearances as a way to say “look we didn’t forget them immediately after!”
5 Likes
Its weird to me that resolutions to Alliance issues are being gate kept by how the Horde player feels about it?
The Alliance feelings certainly weren’t considered when Blizzard destroyed Alliance hubs and dragged them along for an assist for the Horde to clean their own house.
Why do the Horde issues and concerns always take priority? Like unironically why?
Even the players here when they try to make hypothetical of what a worst case scenario for an Alliance story would be are putting thematic issues that are relevant to the Horde not Alliance.
Do either of the developers or the Horde fans posting here even know what the Alliance identity and issues are?
3 Likes
Yeah exactly. Why didn’t they think about the feelings of the alliance players when they had a genocide committed against one of their races? (not talking about players here but the devs) I still don’t understand why they added the genocide part other than their hatred for night elves, burn the tree but why kill most of the civilians as well? Then give the night elves no follow up to that?
It doesn’t even mean the night elves have to do something as bad to the horde as the horde did to them, but there needs to be some conclusion here that is satisfying to night elves.
2 Likes
If it’s a alliance only scenario that the PLAYERS never have to participate in, than why should the feelings of horde players trump mine? That’s what I don’t get. It always comes down to how the horde feels, when it shouldn’t matter how you feel, if you’re never going to see the scenario as a horde player.
4 Likes
Because only you and a handful of people think Horde players found BfA a delightful experience. Only you and a handful of people think that players across the faction divide weren’t mutually miserable.
Unironically, why should the Horde be once more put through a miserable expansion of being the baddies, just so that one side gets to feel good? Unironically, why do you think after being crapped on in MoP, having orcs crapped on in WoD, being largely ignored in Legion, being crapped on in BfA and finally basically ignored again in Shadowlands, why should we be the ones to be miserable just for you?
What kind of sociopathy does it take to think that others should be and must be miserable to make you feel better?
12 Likes