I am tired!! I dunno what it is, but I cannot seem to sleep for more than a couple hours lately. I try and the next thing I know, two hours have passed and my eyes are all ploop, wide awake, time to shuffle around and do nothing!! Then I’ll nap two or three times during the day and never feel awake enough to get anything done!!
I blame the Alliance, they have done this to me.
I hope you feel better soon and get some much needed sleep. I blame the allied ducks. They’re evil I tell you, evil! 
Be the heroes of the damn expansion?
My point is that they were technically impressive, but they felt like the only reason they made them is because they knew how poorly the horde would take being turned in irredeemable monsters because some idiot had a bright idea to ruin the whole game.
It does suck for the Alliance the way they were treated, but with the way they seemed to be thinking they did great in motivating the alliance players in wanting to fight back. Now they just had to do something to keep the horde players who pay attention to the story to just outright quit the game.
The Alliance defeated the horde military. The city was only blown up to prevent them from holding it and as a last ditch effort.
They burned a tree, united the alliance against them, destroyed the horde from the inside. That’s way more of a loss than killing a king and getting away with a few scratches or having the nation you’re stomping on burn itself down rather than get captured.
Oh no. I might have to see what Tyrande thinks of the horde.
That has never happened repeatedly.
Everyone got the idiot ball in BFA.
But most importantly CDEV was licking that damn ball when they came up with the plot.
I’m just tired of hearing how catered to I am from a story that’s driven me from the game.
And as a worgen player, I’m tired of horde posters telling us how good we have it just because 3 humans show up in any given situation. This attitude that the alliance has it soo good really needs to stop. It doesn’t help when it comes to legitimate complaints. 
These heroes?
Literally what I just said. A victory but denied.
Not in 4k.
Not my criteria. Horde conquered several Alliance zones then burned a capital down… actually sorry… i meant an entire zone! Just because they failed to occupy Teldrassil and somehow win everything and thereby preventing this expansion from ever happening doesn’t mean they lost.
Alliance blowing up Lordaeron instead of the Horde? Definitely could have happened and everything else could have remained the same. But Blizzard decided to give the Horde one last kick in the Alliance jaw before they left.
Got two extra words there.
They certainly didn’t hold them after the fact. So a loss.
Fair enough, although I try to remember that it’s a situation where it sucks all around, just in different fashions…
I may get worked up when dealing with someone telling me that a military raid that went off according to plan is somehow a loss.
The Horde got it. Then burned it down. You can’t count it as a loss when you yourself are the one doing the burning.
A military raid that was originally written and designed to make the Alliance the weak underdog which had to run away like cowards when the big orc boyz showed to wreck our faces 
That wasn’t the goal for the horde. The goal was the capture the city to keep the Alliance from attacking Kalimdor, that was a total failure.
Plus, that goes against your claim that destroying the Zandalari fleet wasn’t a victory.
Ever heard the expression win the battle but lose the war?
The Horde decided to burn the tree down.
So they burned it down.
If Alliance burned it down to deny it to the Horde you may have a point. Accomplishing a lofty strategic goal doesn’t mean you didn’t win a tactical goal.
Horde successfully accomplished all their tactical objectives.
When did I say that? Quote it to me.
Alliance won against the Zanadalri, they lost against the Horde would be the most accurate statement you can pin me on.
Or are you now calling Dazar’alor a win for the Alliance since they blew up the fleet, like you state here
Burning down the tree accomplished zero of their goals and actively caused a failure for the goal of trying to prevent the Alliance from attacking the horde through holding the tree.
You can say Sylv accomplished her goals, but those are different than the horde’s (and made up after the fact to try and salvage things)
You said that I said destroying the zandalari fleet wasn’t a victory meanwhile all my comments are in regards to the encounter with the HORDE not zandalari and how the Alliance had to flee from the Horde.
So once again. Show me where I said the fleet destroying wasn’t a victory.
What makes you think holding the tree would have accomplished the desired goals?
Burning it certainly didn’t have the desired effect in the Alliance.
I doubt occupying it would have the desired effect either since Alliance would have attempted a rescue none of the divisions Sylvanas predicted happened before or after the burning.
Horde started a war, crushed the enemy defenses and destroyed an impressive amount of enemy holdings. By any metric its a Horde victory.
Ok, fine, I get it.
You start with the idea that no matter what Blizz is attacking the Alliance players, and work backwards from there to figure out how every story beat furthers that plot.
That was for a total of 6 years. 2004-2010. Not an eternity by any manner. The new status quo of the Alliance having a half assed and unfinished leveling experience(admitted by the devs that they failed the Alliance for Cata) has now existed for 12 years. 2010-2022. That’s literally twice as long. You have to let go of the Classic-Cata experience, it’s no longer relevant and has been paid for twice fold.
Ok? So because they haven’t redone quests in 12 years they should have left the horde with less zones and quests in that area of leveling? All I’m arguing is that what happened in Cata was influenced by the need for the balancing, which was done in a bad way, and that it’s kind of dishonest to take chunks of that balancing out of the larger context to call this some sort of extra content for the horde.
According to the developers themselves Undercity was a loss for the Alliance. They called it snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. DEFEAT.
Horde got depicted as too cowardly to stand up to another tyrant and subjected to Baine selectively whinging about Sylvanas being mean to Alliance.
Even so, I don’t see any reason not to do a mini-series of Alliance oriented cinematics. Bonus points if it brings in some less human-centric cast of characters so we can remember that other peoples actually exist over there on Blue apart from the Blonde Chinlette and Stormwind.
What? not at all.
Just as you point out to poor showings of Horde characters and faction actions and what opposite action would yield a better result, I am doing the same here.
Alliance won against the Zandalari.
Then they had to run to save themselves from the Horde.
Tyrande got the power of Elune to take revenge.
Elune grants it but it will kill her because it is so powerful but not powerful enough to dominate Sylvanas in a fight, in fact the only time Tyrande managed to get a shot on Sylvanas was when she astral rocketed her way to her from behind and for about 5 seconds of neck holding her god powers fail and Sylvanas takes the upper hand.
Did this need to be written this way?
I can assure you I can propose ideas that would make desired outcome happen exactly as Blizzard needed but do it in a way that would make Alliance players (at least speaking for myself) happier than the current situation.
It seems Blizzard DELIBERATELY takes the path to piss people off. So no its not “no matter what” its just what Blizzard decides to because there are matters they could do to not end up where we are now.
Horde definitely needs other content to address the tyrant in the room problem but there is nobody left and now we have dialogues between Faction leaders where Lorthemar literally shuts up when Genn brings up the very correct point of “well maybe you should have done something about it”.
A loyalist uprising that the Horde has to put down comes to mind. Idk how else to make a story about Horde actually managing to deal with their own crap before needing Alliance assistance.
He is staying in shadowlands so hopefully we get something but I am afraid its going to be Turalyon. The original Chin man.
I would love to see the various factions within the Alliance wrestling with a bit of inner turmoil. Namely, that Stormwind seems to have gotten too big for its britches, and seems to be the only voice at the table allowed a vote. They outright left the Night Elves flapping in the wind at their hour of need. Draenei, dwarves, gnomes only seem to exist as military fodder. At some point, one might forgive the other Alliance leaders for feeling like second-class representatives within that organization’s body.
I feel like they missed so many opportunities for that type of stuff with Anduin. His ascension to power would have been the perfect time for that kind of drama, young ruler taking on the position in an emergency. People should have been testing his limits to see what they could get away with. (Plus I figure you could have made some of the problem scenes better using his inexperience, like the plague at UC, just have more showing Anduin’s inexperience on the battlefield with the more veteran characters being calmer and ready for it)
Yup, this has been the case for over 10 years now.