Not my definition. I have just asked for content the Horde player has already gotten.
I never asked for more. The cinematics for example was something I asked for but instead of accepting that you had to resort to gatekeeping.
Why? Horde got cinematics. I want Alliance cinematics too but you kept gate keeping it, asking for the cinematics to be only provided in exchange for something else. Like destroyed faction identity, a dead leader and so on (ironic that Alliance already has all your criteria but whatever…)
Anyway despite numerous claims by you that Alliance players want to see Horde players miserable I have only seen you and several others who argue for just such a thing and gate keep though I am sure Alliance players do it but I haven’t seen it so far. I have no heard Horde players asking for more content outside of a faction war and an Alliance player bursting in and setting up conditions until the spirit of the argument/desire is perverted.
I don’t know what compels you to do this and at this point I don’t think I ever will.
Well at least you are honest enough to admit it.
Nope. That is not true until we had spent hours going back and forth until you realized I was not the charicature you thought you were arguing against.
I’ve pushed back on your nonsense that some cinematics show some sort of favoritism to the horde, and if you want that experience you’re welcome to it along with all the went with it.
You keep doing this thing were you pick bits of facts out of the game that look good for the horde and concentrating the focus on that, and pretending no outside context applies. Like how you insisted on limiting the discussion of content in Cata to just starting 10-20 zones added in cata. So in that case yes, the Goblins got Azshara and Worgen didn’t get a new zone. And so to you that means the horde got more content. Leaving out the whole problem that for the entirety of the game before that the Horde had had one less 10-20 zone (and several less contested zones that only have one faction’s quests in them, think Wetlands) So that Azshara was added (as it was pretty much a dead zone up until that point) to equalize things so the horde had similar leveling experience.
I don’t begrudge the Alliance better stories, we all need better stories. I just don’t put up with it when people pretend that it’s only the Alliance with problems, and come up with solutions that seem focused more on making the horde experience worse than the alliance one better
Horde characters doing Horde things with other Horde characters and once in a while an Alliance character gets to cameo in while the Horde character is thinking about, talking about and doing things in regards to a Horde thing.
But yeah. Thats not favoritism towards Horde content in BFA cinematics
A Night Elf shows up in Ardenweald and we get an army of players claiming Night Elf fatigue or Alliance fatigue.
Because the discussion was about Cata. If you want to talk about something else lets go and talk about it.
Yes for Cata they did.
You talk about Horde problems.
I talk about Alliance problems.
I don’t gate keep you unless it negatively impacts what I already have access to.
If you check by the second or third post here I asked OP what exactly they wanted to get in their Horde victory over the Alliance and I still have no real tangible idea or plan of what they want.
Everytime an Alliance player makes a “Hey I would like X, Y or Z” there are a half a dozen like you that start gate keeping until one side exhausts the other.
Oh you mean the majority of content in a good chunk of expansions if you change that Horde to Alliance.
Exactly, Cata, the expansion that had the major goal of rebalancing the content so that the horde wasn’t a few zones and a couple hundred quests behind the Alliance anymore?
If you want better story for the Alliance great. If you want the alliance to both get to go to the same or worse excesses of brutality in faction conflict AND still be treated as the good guys, or other forms of retribution for what the story team did to you placed on the other people they hurt, not so much.
No I am talking about the cinematics about Saurfang, Zappyboi, Andiun, Thrall and Sylvanas having trailer grade cinematics on one singular theme.
The Horde identity and its future.
So you are back to justifying Alliance is supposed to get bad/rushed content as a way to placate the Horde’s short comings. Got it.
All I said was that I wanted Alliance to have a real win over the Horde.
Beat back their defences and maybe burn down their city like they have done to Alliance like a dozen times before.
Yes.
Well the Horde did already burn a down a dozen of my hubs so I think I am owed at least one. As for the being the good guys, thats a matter of perspective isn’t it? I will gladly play the role of the bad guy in your story if its needed to make the Horde story more complex.
Or do you enjoy the unapologetic mass murdering faction identity that kills people with little to no provocation or justification.
I cant speak for everyone, but generally speaking, alliance fans, worgen and NE fans in particular, just want to be able to actually hit back at the horde for the atrocities they get free reign to commit every expansion.
For example, the worgen should be making it their mission to hunt down the forsaken to make them pay for teldrassil and gilneas. The Night elves should be actively hunting the horde in general and making them pay. But we’re hindered because the horde said they were Sorry for the umpteenth time.
I don’t mind being the bad guy, if blizz would actually give the worgen some teeth and let them be werewolves and not homeless dogs in Stormwind.
Hey, I’m with you there. I want an Alliance that’d be an actual rival to the horde, so it’s not just the horde being a plot device to drive faction conflict plots. And I know most Alliance players don’t feel that way, but there’s enough on this forum who seem to want to put the horde to shame and get treated as virtuous heroes for doing so.
That’s just ridiculous. But as a fair exchange, I would accept more zones like Stormheim, where both sides can argue whether the other side was right or wrong.
There are pretty much no characters left in this video game whose opinions I care about so who cares if they think I’m a virtuous hero for winning or not
I’m more attracted to the idea of reverting to a Vanilla style “you’re a smaller part of a larger world” story than I used to be in part so I don’t constantly have to hang out with these imbeciles.
I’m a fan of bringing the faction war into more of a realistic level of conflict, no super evil or good cosmic forces driving things. Just more stuff like petty revenge, resource control, and strategic desires pushing for aggressive actions that echo the sort of wars that we’ve had on this planet. I’m glad to see Genn’s getting his teeth back after it sounded like they were gonna have him soften up on the horde. Both sides need to be a realistic threat to the other, and the heroes of their own stories, that’s been missing.
And my go to for good example has always been pre-book nonsense Taurajo for that kind of who’s right or wrong arguing
We already did this nonsense in MoP, and even then people rightly argued it was nothing the Horde hadn’t learned in WC3. BfA was an absolute lore disaster.
I am not disputing that at all but all I am saying is that those cinematics really had one topic in mind and it was the Horde.
Next time when they make these trailer grade cinematics lets have Alliance and their issues on the forefront. And if a Horde character has to cameo in like Andiun then by all means.
I’d argue that the 2nd one was much more Alliance. At the least “Horde can’t do anything without golden boy urging us on” is not a very horde message.
But the problem was their place in the story, or more to the point, how they didn’t really fit into the story as it unfolded. They made the cinematics, but the story still went were it did. So yay. We’re horde, and we have prietty things telling us about honor, and then what we play is very much not honor based. BFA was a mess, and the cinematics felt more like some sort of attempt at justifying what they wrote than being something meaningful to the story.
Like the opening that presented a story that felt much more balanced with the hope for an aggressive (but not villainous) alliance following up on the seeds planted in Legion. And then we got the totally unconnected BFA story.
Like please see things from my perspective for 2 minutes.
Horde just barbecued an Alliance race, they then blew up a city to deny a much deserved victory then we go into a pirate themed island that the faction war, besides for one corner of the map is devoid of the war.
And then we have cinematics that go like Horde, Horde, Horde, Honor, Horde, Horde, Horde, Honor, Sylvanas, Honor, Horde, Horde, Horde, Honor, and then
The start of the cinematic is about human devastating loses, and then he starts talking about Horde Honor.
Like if these cinematics were made to justify the Horde’s story telling what was made for the Alliance? We kept being told “Wait and See”
We got so much teasing and in the end we got Sylvanas WILLINGLY jumping into hell. Where is the satisfaction in that? Shadowlands and BFA used the Alliance as a tool to tell a story about the Horde and Sylvanas and seemingly we got nothing out of it.
Let the Alliance have their damn cinematics, we have waited for long enough.
If you want to gatekeep how miserable we got to be then I think mission accomplished, we are already there and been there for couple years.
Just not anything to do with the game we were playing. At least he saved his shaming of the horde to our faces for the scenario and not in the cinematic.
A loss that destroyed the horde and ruined its story using your criteria.
An actual loss
The whole gorram expansion was beating even the horde over the head with how justified and righteous the Alliance was, did you need some cinematics to go “I know we’ve stabbed you in the chest once again with a horrible story that betrays everything you signed up for, but look, here’s a sad orc in 4k, we’re all good now right? GOOD! Now go kick more puppies!”
to do what? What was the Alliance justified to do? Fight in their own lands and push back the Horde or be given the land back when Horde finds their morals again?
You keep saying Alliance is righteous or justified but what are we Rightous to do? What are justified to get away with?
Self inflicted by the Horde. It certainly was nothing to make up for the Alliance player.
The Horde didn’t run away from the Alliance. If you want to use my criteria, at least apply it correctly. Its my criteria afterall. I should know.
Better than nothing. Now imagine we got BFA and the 4 cinematics were from Tyrande’s perspective.
And besides thats not how those cinematics happened. It was all about Sylvanas and her faults, Horde was not made to accept a single moment of guilt for what they did. Sylvanas was ruining the Horde apparently and Saurfang and Thrall had to band together and stop her.
It’s been mentioned numerous times before, but for BfA to even work like it did, it required the alliance to be holding the Idiot Ball once again. Generally speaking, the story on both sides was terrible. The night elves and their fans got not getting resolution for teldrassil is a big one that comes to mind.
This debate was old back in MoP. It was old when we had two non-stop years of it in BfA. Blue and Red will never see eye to eye on any of this. It is a dead argument.
Let’s try and leave it in Shadowlands, where dead things belong.
