the wow devs are against us getting literally anything so that’s not surprising
Knockbacks? priests can’t get em, but we’ll give em to everyone else
Interrupts? only priests are not allowed to have these
Mobility? come on 40% MS is fine! that mobility is more deserved by everyone else
i digress.
2 Likes
I think if priests have low mobility then we should have some form to avoid being slowed and rooted like Paladins and Death Knights.
I think Holy Priests should get Divine Ascension (currently PvP talent) in PvE so they can fly on demand and completely avoid ground mechanics.
Would be cool for Discipline and Shadow to get access to that as well, but I think that would be a bit much.
For Shadow, give us back Spectral Guise and make it like Demon Hunters Netherwalk so that you have increased speed and immune to damage while stealthed.
For Discipline… I guess just make them be really tanky and absorb a lot? Not too sure a good solution for them regarding a thematic speed boost or root/slow immunity.
One idea I had posed a while back was something I called Mantra.
Similar to holy Paladin beacons, you put a Mantra of Concentration or Fortitude on a target. This mantra provides Atonement to the target and with Concentration, it refreshes Atonement and makes you immune to movement reduction each time you attack a target. With Fortitude, your atonement is refreshed each time you take damage and you take less damage while atonement is active.
So something like this…
-
Mantra of Concentration
Atonement is refreshed each time you deal damage and you are immune to slowing and rooting effects.
Only one Mantra can be applied to a target at a time -
Mantra of Fortitude
Atonement is refreshed each time you take damage and you take 10% less damage.
Only one Mantra can be applied to a target at a time
Not sure if there should be a time limit buff or like beacon of light for Holy Paladin where you can move it around to other players as you see fit.
I see these Mantras sort of like Inner Fire and Inner will where they either gave you more armor for extra physical damage reduction or increased movement speed.
But in this case, they are non dispelable buffs you can place on any friendly target that each provides a way to help manage atonement while providing a form of mobility or damage mitigation pending the Mantra type.
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The thing is you are not being objective. All those tools that you state we can’t have because of mind control literally other healers, druid especially, have with significantly better CC than mind control.
Your argument makes as much sense as saying a quarterback can’t have a wide receiver because he has a running back, even though every other quarterback in the league has multiple wide receivers and running backs to pick from.
It is completely illogical with no basis in reality and reflects a clear bias AGAINST priest as oppose to an objective standard by which to hold all class design to.
7 Likes
The answer is not always to allow everyone to have everything.
I acknowledge the strength of some classes use of CC and I believe the answer is to nerf their utility similar to how Mass Dispel got nerfed in making it less usable all the time.
The issue with just giving healing priests access to both an interrupt AND Mind Control might not be that much in terms compared to Shaman and Druid utility but is seen as very powerful compared to others utility.
This is why I am saying I am looking at each class and understanding that the more you push a single class up the ranks of utility or CC options, then the more overpowered it becomes.
Just because some outliers exist does not mean to just buff everyone else. I think some nerfs should be in place instead of just granting healing priests utility and CC to the level of the top outliers.
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The problem with this thinking is that shadow would require a very large number of nerfs to a very large number of specs to be balanced. The simplest solution is to simply modernize the priests kit to bring it into line with every other spec.
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Pretty much. Burn it to ground, look head-on at Shammy and Prevoker and build it back up.
2 Likes
You mean like a Paladin who has Repentence+Hammer of Justice+rebuke?
Or a monk who has RoP, Incap, and an AoE stun?
Or an Evoker with an interrupt, a sleep, an AoE knock-up, and AoE knock-back, a massive AoE root, a massive AoE stun, the ability to increase CC duration by 50%
Legit man you are embarrassing yourself with these attempts to try and act like Mind Control is some oppressive CC that is supposedly so good priests can’t have an interrupt simply doesn’t gel with reality. Literally every other class in the game has an interrupt on top of better CC than the priest has and giving it an interrupt on it’s current kit while nice wouldn’t bring it up to par if you changed nothing else.
You are treating Mind Control like it is somehow this amazing and uniquely powerful CC when it reality it is uniquely weak compared to literally every other CC in the game. It is the worst with the only possible CC in the game that is worse than it also being in the priest kit called Shackle Undead. What I described isn’t an outlier it’s the baseline expectation for functional kits in the modern age, and there is zero excuse and sure as hell no legitimate reason to justify priest not having these tools.
4 Likes
All have a cooldown. So they cannot be spammed.
All have a cooldown. So they cannot be spammed.
All have a cooldown. So they cannot be spammed.
My justification for Mind Control being so strong is because you can just do it over and over on either the same target or bounce it around to different targets. It is not a spell that you get a small window of time to never worry about unless you already used it so much within a short amount of time where the target becomes immune to it from diminishing returns.
The problem is that they cant put a cooldown on it or else it will be near useless because since its also a channel spell, you can interrupt it in so many ways. But because it can be spammed, the fact that you CAN interrupt it in so many ways makes it such a great ability to bait interrupts so you can then free heal.
All those other classes have pretty lengthy cooldowns that once they use them, it will take some time for them to use again. So if you blow them all after another like Priest can do with Mind Control, they run out really quickly and as such they become far less threatening for a while.
It’s not about the quantity of these types of CC, its about how often they can you them and with Priests Mind Control, it doesn’t have a hard limit, only a soft limit that is only restricted from diminishing returns.
Fun fact, Mind Control CCs you when you use it, making you unable to heal your ally…So it cannot be spammed.
Your logic has no logic outside of the most superficial and you have put as little possible thought into it, but I will say thank you for giving us a window into the type of nonsense Blizzard must also go through in order to come up with PW:GFY ideas.
3 Likes
You can cast Mind Control and then get knocked back or pulled in or knocked up or down etc. As long as you do not get your spell school locked out, then you can just Cast Mind Control again. This can happen over and over again. Or you can cancel it early and do it over and over again.
So from a technical perspective, you can use it any time you want and as often as you want. You are not limited by the spell, you are only limited by the application at which you choose to use it like if the target is immune to it or if the target is out of range etc.
This would be like me saying “you can spam Shackle Undead, well no there are no undead around but it’s spammable.” Just because the spell doesn’t have a CD doesn’t mean it’s mechanics will actually permit you to spam it. Mind Control isn’t spammable, the self CC is simply to punishing to ever allow it to be used in such a way and doing so will more than likely result in a dead teammate at worst, or at best you now being behind and having to catch-up which we all know is nothing something disc has the ability to effectively do in it’s toolkit.
When you Mind Control, you take a risk yes. It can have a big payoff or a massive downside. It is an ability that requires some preplanning to use effectively.
Regarding the falling behind on healing etc. That is more of a problem with Discipline sure, but that is not a problem with Mind Control.
The Priest class can have issues with the class or its specs that could positively or negatively impact Mind control usage. But that does not discount the technical aspect of Mind Control and what makes it so good to bait interrupts or waste other players cooldowns and do it consistently all the time.
Pending your teammates, you can have far greater or far worse uptime on getting successful Mind Controls out. But that doesn’t make Mind control in of itself a bad spell as I can fully agree that apart from using Mind Control to toss people off a cliff in solo gameplay, it has far less useful applications compared to team play. So Mind Control can either be very powerful or barely noticeable pending your situation.
This is why having a choice between Mind Control and an interrupt would be helpful as you can choose to have a more skillful and situational useful spell or a spell that has a wide usage but its impact would never be to the level as good Mind Control can do.
This is why having both I think would tip the scales far to much in the Priests favor and we would result in loosing something else in other areas that could cause having an interrupt just simply not worth it.
That is why I am critical to the idea of having both as it could become a case of which you asked for far to much and will reap the consequences from it.
And this is a nonsensical stance based literally on what is in the game. Imagine playing a racing game and while everyone else gets a car you get a bicycle and when someone comes along and says “hey that isn’t right that guy should have a car too” you try to argue all the reasons why you can’t have a car because you have a bike.
It is that silly, it has just as much validity, that is to say zero, and quite frankly shouldn’t be taken seriously. Your argument is self defeating.
Tbh I would give up interrupt for healer priest and instead give us a Brez.
It is insane they gave it to the paladin when priest has way more sense to have a brez. And if we don’t get a normal brez at least making Restitution baseline or accesible on our talent tree to pair it with Afterlife.
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I stated in my first post around this issue that it may not be necessary to replace Mind control.
But I also can see the merit as to why having both would be ridiculously strong and is is for that reason I am assuming WHY the wow devs are so adamant that healing priests don’t get an interrupt.
So I am looking at both sides of what the wow devs think and what the player base want and I put forth a suggestion that may have some half measure of satisfying both ends.
If the wow devs wont straight up grant healing priests an interrupt, maybe they might entertain a half measure.
Basically you attract things better with honey, not vinegar.
It’s especially weird when the pieces of a brez are sort of already there with Afterlife and Restitution - just clunky to use and an enormous investment to take.
It’s like a lot of the priest utility - very flavorful in a 2004-era Classic kind of way. But the flavor comes at the expense of “just working.”
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MC is used as a death grip with extra steps, MC into leap of faith your MC’d target into scream. /s
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Ah so instead of giving us a car like everyone else has you hope they settle for a gokart. Still males no sense if the objective is fair and balanced class design as oppose to leaving one class to become obsolete outside overtuning their numbers.
+1 Agree.
Move Silence into the Class Tree. In the current Shadow Tree, Silence can be replaced with Last Word (reduces Silences CD by 15secs). Keep Psychic Horror where it is.
45s kick for Holy/Disc is still the 2nd longest kick in the game. Longest kick for any healer. Rdruids don’t get Solar Beam
30s kick for Shadow is still 3rd longest kick with Evokers.
The notion that a blanket silence like Silence and Solar Beam CD need to be 2-3x longer than interrupts is definitely an outdated thinking in a kick heavy game like M+.
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Would be nice!
I’m playing disc in m+ and it’s so hard to fit in groups because the spec isn’t “pug friendly”. Our kit is outdated, our MD was nerfed and we have no utilities at all. And then we see RSham, with an interrupt 12s CD, capacitor, the jump, the aoe totem that dispels poisons and we have like…PI.
I’ve seen so many DPS players that doesnt interrupt in m+, and we can’t do a thing unless watch us slowly die as the enemy casts abilities.
3 Likes