A team managed to beat the very hardest content ever created for FF14 without a healer, because they did dozens of mechanics flawlessly so that off-spec healing and mits were powerful enough to resist the mandatory global damage. Does that mean healing is optional and the job is entirely dead? No, because how many people go flawless in a fight that’s harder than any single boss in WoW? Why would you change things because ONE group was perfect in content so hard that some of the most well known raiders were concerned that pubbies wouldn’t be able to clear at all?
I do not think the game needs changes for everyone because of Maximus and his 19 friends.
Your example is the exact opposite of what you are arguing against. You’re showing that people who are skilled enough might not need a thing, but the reality is, people who aren’t that skilled or are doing something extremely hard still do want it. And that’s precisely what the issue is here - if left unchanged, the Dracthyr racial would absolutely cause huge swathes of high-end players to re-roll or more likely race-change to Dracthyr - worse, large numbers of “only decent” players would, because they’d be able to see the very obvious advantages to a race that has two large hard stops and can also glide (making it faster and immune to fall-related mechanics).
You think you’re making a “one group doesn’t matter” argument, when you’re actually showing how important things can be, even if they’re not technically required.
The reality is, people arguing against Dracthyr racials being nerfed for non-Evokers just want to be OP and had been assuming they’d be allowed to be OP. It’s really as a simple as that. It’s not a complex or deep thing. You wanna be OP, you’re sad you’re not going to be as OP as expected. Honestly it’s bad enough that they’re getting glide, because that means all future encounters will be designed so glide gives you no real advantage, where it was fine if DHes and Evokers (only) got some situations they could use it in.
This is rubbish, by the way, because it’s all from Evoker’s perspective, and apparently you’ve forgotten that Demon Hunters get glide, and have had glide for far, far longer than Evokers have existed.
Glide is absolutely a niche but extremely good ability, which does negate some mechanics, and negates most of those pretty much entirely. And the speed boost is far higher than those provided by most other racials. Further, no you do not “have to stop to use an ability” or “stop to dodge a mechanic” if you’re not playing a caster. That’s what you seem to be unable to conceive here. Rogue, Warrior, two specs of Hunter, they don’t have to stop and cast. If you’ve moving more than minor repositioning where speed is meaningless because the distance is so small, it’s generally worth double-jump-gliding. Anyone who has played DH significantly knows this. Also the idea that it stops you dodging mechanics is absolutely bananas. I have no idea why you even typed that.
It’s vastly more powerful than the movement racials other races get. 4% indoor movement speed? Glide is de facto closer to 30%+ and works outdoors too. Darkflight is nice but it’s on a 2 minute cooldown and is the main Worgen racial, and it’s only 50%! Higher but not even double what “casual” gliding nets you.
Pretending abilities aren’t good isn’t a smart way to argue when some people have had them for decade, and you’ve clearly barely even used them.
This is an absolutely hilariously bad argument. Just laughable.
It is absolutely “game-breaking” when you stick that kind of movement boost on to classes not balanced around it! And you can add it on top of other movement boosts in many cases!
I do think Dracthyr should be able to glide, but I think for non-Evokers, they need to nerf the forward speed of glide a lot - indoors at the very least - because the idea that it’s not significant is a total joke!
That 30-35% ‘movespeed’ from glide spam precludes you from doing anything other than instant cast abilities,
That 30-35% ‘movespeed’ doesn’t happen when you have any snare of 50% or greater on you, as Glide’s forward momentum is severely reduced with a 50-60% snare, and completely stopped with a 70% or greater snare.
…not to mention that you’d have to be whipping your mouse around like you’re trying to make a CoD 360 quickscope montage if you’re trying to attack a target while glide spamming away from them…
(Also, it’s incredibly rich getting that argument that ‘Glide is OP for other classes’ from a demon hunter, of all classes.)
I didn’t forget any of that. I’ve played a Demon Hunter for years.
Glide is less useful to Mage/Priest/Warlock, sure, but it’s absolutely huge for Warriors, Rogues and BM or Survival Hunters. I love that you are so locked into playing casters you don’t even understand that many classes and specs are based around “instant cast” abilities, and thus are pretending like “only being able to use instant cast abilities” is some huge deal.
As for “whipping your mouse around”, dude, it’s just not that hard. I’ve been doing that kind of thing since Vanilla - even without glide you could jump-turn-shoot-land without losing speed with a Hunter back then.
I’m really not, we talk about “fun detected” all the time.
I personally think they should put Tail Swipe and Wing Buffet on a shared cooldown. As Kul Tirans launch people further on a dedicated CD, it keeps Drac from being a kinda crummy KT DH.
You people comparing classes to a racial that you’re outright admitting is >2% movement speed don’t seem to understand the assignment. The comparison for racial abilities that provide movement are either cooldown abilities that jump or move slightly faster than glide or the passive non CD options are 2%. Glide is neither on a CD or 2%. Seems like the conversation should be which would you like it to be?
I guess they could add another racial for Dracthyr that says they move 20% slower when not gliding to balance it and keep glide at the normal speed it is. That would be an interesting mechanic, call it “Ground Aversion” since dragons like to fly. Y’all want races to now be considered for balance, seems like they need to have a “downsides” column.
Keep your sensible reasoning and logic out of here. Dracthyr are the most broken race ever released and there will be 100% of players playing them come patch day. We won’t see a single druid or Paladin anymore for fear of not having glide/wing buffet!
Maybe demon hunters will stick around because they also have glide. Who knows?
These people will just say anything to get something that’s not broken nerfed just to kill fun for other people because they don’t like it.
Taking an action stops glide, using Evoker if you hit Azure Strike it cancels glide, Auto Attack is not able to hit during glide. DH is a case that all their mobility and attacks just flow into glide easily as it’s designed to. Evoker has many instant cast abilities, which work game design wise similarly to attack abilities. A rogue’s mutilate is a “spell” that can’t be silenced and requires weapons.
My main is pres, alt is a hunt. Avoiding mechanics with the double jump is undeniably easier and quicker. If you truly played evoker you would know you get a quick acceleration when glide starts to help you move out of danger. On my hunter I have to start moving a lot earlier.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the majority of the player base are actually those that do not engage in any type of group activity or do so extremely casually most times not even engaging in M+ content.
That being said, the initial plan of what Dracthyr should have been for other classes was perfectly fine. Tuning it to appease other people crying about how OP their racials are is nothing short of nonsense when we look back and realize what other races have available to them unless they are also willing to tune those as well.
You’re wrong. Tail swipe & Wing buffet are not hard stops. That was nerfed in the war within, adds will resume casting as soon as they stop moving a second later.
I’m sorry who ever said that because a class has something thematic a race shouldn’t get that?
Should meld be gone because 4 classes have its equivalent and 2 of them are already iconic for nelves? You could just play druid or hunter if you want the true night elf fantasy, why should you have shadowmeld as a warrior (for those thinking this is serious - this is reducing the argument to its essence).
That’s a cool mischaracterization of the argument.
Big powerful racial movement abilities have cooldowns, they’re but a shadow of their parallel abilities. Warrior leap, have no fear goblins can do it occasionally. Rogue vanish? Cool, very powerful ability on a cool down for Night Elf, we see it abused plenty in high level play.
Passive movement effects for races have a clear precedent, hint - I already told you it was 2%, not over 15x that with additional benefits. Put it in non-instanced content, no big deal. Run around gold shire flapping at 40% increased movement speed with your 1.5 minute knock up or knock back. We don’t need additional power creep from races being introduced.
And again, I can care less if all racial abilities get buffed or gutted, but it should be one or the other if glide goes live. Look how straight trash Earthen racial abilities are. It’s like there’s a whole other design philosophy applied to them compared to Dracthyr.