Legion sure did. We paying for that now.
No it didn’t. The amount of content introduced in MoP was massive.
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And the same 15 people always seem to need to feel better by implying “every one that are subscribed , but not posting on the forums, are enjoying the game. Thus, the game is fine and criticisms shouldn’t be taken seriously”
Right…
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You sure love misrepresenting and twisting what I said don’t you friendo?
Alls we got in this expansion is Tier bonuses taken, Legendary traits taken, and the whole other talent type system PER SPEC within the Artifacts, and we got in their place, the WORST PART OF LEGION as a mainstay, that stupid relic RNG SLOT MACHINE from Argus!
Its a crying shame.
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There can be great valid, and negative, feedback on the forums. But there is also no lack of hyperbole.
Honestly, I just find it the most frustrating that hard hitting issues seem to often go ignored. I understand that it’s difficult to communicate on big issues like class design, balance, gcd changes, azerite balance, reward systems, RNG. But there should be reasons to communicate.
It seems like they have become afraid to say anything because of how the community will always throw the words back in their face if they change their mind or don’t deliver. I think a lot of that comes from never getting reasons.
They announced they were going to make a gcd change to offensive abilities. Then added WAYYYYY more than offensive abilities to the GCD. They never mentioned the topic again lol.
They make posts about class design, they made a huge blog post in early beta, they say “more extensive reworks are coming” for some classes. Then some of it never comes, or they don’t address any feedback on the changes they do make.
They implement a currency system, but don’t respond to any of the feedback on the pacing.
They say they are changing islands, but aside from event variety don’t really say how they are changing them. It’s not just the rewards, it’s also the gameplay.
We need reasonings for things. Other games give it. Any new HotS class and balance changes have videos, lots of dev notes. You see discussions for Overwatch changes and balance. Games by other developers get extensive patch notes/reasonings at times. I do not understand why the WoW team is so bad at it, and it leaves the players with no choice but to make up their own reasonings for why things are bad. And yeah people will latch onto something that maybe makes some kind of sense, or whatever they agree with.
Because there is nothing from Blizzard for them to latch onto, there’s no interaction in a vast majority of cases. It’s Blizzard popping in every now and then with “this is what we’re doing, we appreciate feedback” and then they never say anything again lol.
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I’m changing this post as I felt it was very rude and I apologize. I do appreciate that there has been a little more communication lately.
The biggest problem I have, the beta and alpha just made it feel like we were not being listened to at all.
And then when the game came out and the exact problems we said would occur, occurred it just became very disheartening.
I do understand that making games are not the easiest thing to do.
My main complaints this expansion:
I don’t feel like a paladin anymore, I feel like a random plate wearer. I absolutely hate that when I get gear from raids or anywhere, I know longer feel like a paladin just a dumb plate wearer.
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I’m so glad you posted this
People seriously seem to have forgotten how absurd of an outrage the top players learning of the 4 legendary BLP cap was, and how THEY DISCOVERED IT, essentially acting like Blizzard was lying and covering it up.
This was an existential crisis for the game’s competitive players and with out question in my mind the biggest thing that ever made me concerned with the long term health of the game.
Now everyone’s talking about Legion like they only played 7.3 and onwards.
That makes it really hard to have a discussion, I feel like, because people are comparing a version of a game to a memory instead of making an objective comparison.
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Artifact questlines, Class Hall Campaigns, Suramar, the Illidan questline, Balance of Power, Pillars of Creation, Class mounts, WQs, Mage Tower, M+, Raids, Broken Shore, and Argus.
Suramar was IoT, Broken Shore was TI, Argus was Krasarang, M+ is a better (and repeatable) version of CMs, MoP had an extra raid to start, WQs are just dailies but they were relevant the entire expansion because of Paragon caches and legendary farming, Balance of Power/Artifact progression was basically the Legendary cloak questline, Mage Tower was an improved version of Proving Grounds with rewards that were unique to 36 classes instead of 3 roles, and MoP had the farm and that’s about equal to the mission table.
They had pretty much the same amount of content. A lot of Legion was class/spec unique and repeatable though.
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It was a bad system then and its an even worse system now. You want an honest conversation about it that is fine by me.
The legendary system was terrible. It was an RNG system that several classes were tied to. I won’t even get into the bug that allowed lucky people to get all of them before some people found one.
The Azerite system is even worse.
I say this as someone who is well aware of the issues of the legendary system they implemented at the start of legion.
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As awful as the Legendary system was, most everything else about Legion was pretty dang good. AP had some questionable moments early on too, but Legion was a good expansion.
There was the singular aspect of legendary acquisition that was absolutely horrid, but it was still only one part in a very large game. And yeah, once you had most (or all) of them they were a fun aspect of the game.
Even nothing in BfA was as poorly implemented as the legendary acquisition system in my opinion though.
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Preach on my friend! So true!
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People are fondly remembering Legion now, but forget the outrage that followed Legendaries from 7.0 to 7.2. There were multiple threads a day with hundreds of replies with feedback about them.
Thats a selective comment, Ythisens.
None of them were about legendaries, but about the way they were obtained.
The issue with the way that the system allowed those to have one get two…then three, then four…when the rest of us had NONE comes to mind. The items themselves were fine, the godawful RNG that meant that many of us had zero for months comes to mind.
The forums are a good gauge of activity but not necessarily the “state of the game”. That’s a little more complicated.
Maybe so, what wasnt so complicated is that the essences fix had been asked for over a long time, and was not implemented until much later.
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You forget about the massive re-balance we did for them in 7.1 then where we redid/buffed all of the under-performing legendaries because of how punishing it was to get some of them.
Like I said earlier in the thread it wasn’t a direct comparison but an example.
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Aweful funny that any place you go on the internet about BfA ALL have the SAME complaints about the problems with it. Hmmmmm. Strange.
I mean anywhere. You would think that if the SAME issues are being discussed around the entire net, then you would think, "Hmmmm, maybe theres something to these criticisms. But nope, we get “You dont remember the forums during every other expansion” nonsense.
Oh i remember, and even with some of their obvious faults, every other expansion outshines BfA by a mile.
Even WoD!
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I don’t think anyone’s trying to discount that there are issues or that people should give feedback about their issues.
But it’s not some sudden thing–these things have always happened.
I’m still of the opinion that WoD can’t stand in a direct comparison. But that’s my side of the coin. You’re welcome to yours.
This is not s good example. The only people that the 4 legendary cap affected were the people spamming M+ for 8-10 hours a day. The outrage was on behalf of those players for the concealment of this issue by Blizzard because these hardcore players wasted hundreds of hours farming for something they were never going to get.
Refer to my previous post. Bad is better than terrible, but it’s still bad. I think people would prefer the 7.0 legendary system over the Azerite mess we have now.
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Sure, you are welcome to your opinion. My real point there was when that came up it was a bombshell for this game. The one group that seemingly would play no matter what was rioting, and top guilds were quitting left and right before and after Nighthold.
Now, no one even REMEMBERS that, or even brings it up.
That’s my point. That as bad or good as anything in BFA is, in the end, people will remember what they want.
Sadly, that makes it impossible to have a real discussion about it, because even when people try to be objective, they still just don’t remember things that were really bad.
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You forget about the massive re-balance we did for them in 7.1 then where we redid/buffed all of the under-performing legendaries because of how punishing it was to get some of them.
I accept the correction, thank you, you are right. I do draw your attention to the last part of that sentence.
Look, Ythisens, I want to like BFA and as a measure of that confidence, advanced my sub to May next year, despite invites from friends to other games.
BUT
A lot needs fixing.
Id like to draw your attention and ask your commentary on what was said by Heels…not Im not asking you to agree but what he said was
“In BFA, if you dont raid, pvp or do m plus theres nothing for you”
I am an outer world player. Allways have been always will be. In that WORLD of Warcraft. Remember the daily caches?
Removed.
Why?
They provided a form of gearing for players who did not WANT to be funnelled into instances, it worked, it kept me engaged, I hit TEN THOUSAND WQ and I was proud of that…but that was tiered to the sheer volume of content that was provided for me.
I loved it. You removed it. Why?
Remember Margoss? Removed. The daily caches that dropped gear and mats and bloods, a small “surprise” box that was useful? Removed.
Take a look at the map. Three quarters of the map is empty of any content. Why?
I ask this as I really want a chance to get some feedback…why are we back to pushing people into instanced content?
What was wrong with Legions outside world system and rewards?
Nothing.
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If they said they would then that would be even worse for this discussion. You can NOT objectively compare the two systems and say the Azerite system is worse. The changes coming in 8.1 will make it better in every possible way, especially.
People will obviously dislike one or the other, but no one ever says that.
For real, if anyone actually said they preferred a system where you had to make new toons to try to get mandatory BIS items that you could only have 4 total of no matter how much you played then that’s a serious problem.