Get an Eye on an Even Dozen New Hero Talent Trees

Well, I’ll say it here, as I’ve said elsewhere already. As a monk main, I’m seriously underwhelmed.

Shado-pan loses functionally all the flavor of the faction it’s emulating. When I saw the name I was hoping to see a diverse set of support elements from all the classes of WoW, because the Shado-pan are more than just monks, they’re everyone. I was hoping to see something akin to the scalecommander, calling in reinforcements, using hidden techniques, or possibly interacting with the ability to draw the Sha from our opponents. You know, the literal first thing we see a member of the Shadow-pan do in Pandaria.

Instead we’re treated to “when you do damage, do some more damage, sometimes.” It does nothing to fix any of the problems that windwalker or brewmaster currently have, and in fact it’s going to exacerbate existing issues the classes are facing, namely scaling. From a keystone that literally reverse scales as you level and gear, to a series of nodes that continue to suffer from the monk problem of “do thing, get free stats” even further invalidating stat scaling on our equipment, and generally distinct lack of usable utility, either in defense or mobility, and you’re left with a hero spec that basically fails at everything the system is set out to do: Shado-pan doesn’t make me feel like the fantasy it’s expressing, doesn’t make my character cooler or more interesting to play, and doesn’t prop up problem areas or cover additional ground for the class.

Conduit of the Celestials, on the other hand, actually seems interesting and engaging, but even then it is leaving a bad taste in my mouth. The last thing monk players want is another channeled ability. Essence Font is constantly maligned by the community because it’s not fun moment-to-moment gameplay, and is either so powerful you feel forced to use it, or so sub-par it’s largely forgotten. Windwalker already struggles with scaling partially because of the raw amount of channel time in the rotation, preventing things like auto attacking from actually being able to be valuable. This is part of the reason haste is just so terrible for the class. Many of the nodes are simply “this ability you’re already hitting on CD does more damage” or “this ability you’re struggling to use to consume resources gives you more resources to consume.” The fantasy lands much better, as it seems you’ll have the spirits around you basically constantly by my reckoning, but it leaves a bitter taste when the things they’re doing range from uninteresting, to actively unhelpful. I was hoping for a support oriented option, especially because I’ve been hoping for a melee augmentation style gameplay and thought monk would be the place to find it. While the spec has cool flavor, it doesn’t solve any problems of the classes, and even goes on to further add button bloat to a pair of specs that are begging for more keybind space.

I really hope whoever is on the monk dev team sees this, and when we get dedicated feedback sections I’ll be reposting it there, because honestly this lackluster reveal, coupled with our dire need of some reworking, and the general silence from the dev team just goes to show exactly why monks are the least played class in the game (aside from Evokers, but they’re literally limited to one per realm.)

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You get to take all the nodes on the Hero Tree, the only ones you have to choose are the choice nodes.

Flurry Strikes occur whenever you spend 400 energy (with the health determining how many charges you can get). It’ll take a bit to math how often it happens in practice but I suspect as Brew you’ll Flurry Strike every 10 seconds or so, so having it up when enemies die shouldn’t be infrequent. (WW will do it much much less often due to FoF and Chi)

Like all Hero trees, it will be tuning dependent.

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As a priest I enjoy the fact that the keystone for Shado-Pan interacts NEGATIVELY with the only group buff priests have left. Hilarity.

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Please please please let DKs have permanent mounted combat even indoors. Even if that means reducing indoor mounted speed to balance it out, just let us be mounted at all times for combat.

This is literally all I’ve ever wanted since DKs came out, to feel like the death knights from WC3. This is my only plea!

P.S. A lot of these talents look pretty dang cool and I’m very excited for TWW!!

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Rider of the Apocalypse seems awesome.

My main feedback for it is simply cosmetic. Could it be possible to let us choose a horseman mount recolor for it? While the fantasy is awesome, we’ll look pretty lame on our 2008 Archerus Death Charger, compared to the Midnight recolors that the horsemen have.

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I would recommend understanding how the system itself works before writing up a response on a specific tree.

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I like the theme around Satyrs for Heckcallers. But it’s a bit tricky to visualize.

Wither has cast time or nah?

When it goes acute, will it consume duration as well? If it replaces Immolate, how it works with Internal Combustion?

Wither apply from Cata, too, I suppose? Kinda makes Mark of Xavius not that great.

Infernals also have their Immo replaced as well?

What about Channel Demonfire?

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Cooldowns do NOT need to be reduced, those abilities already reset constantly… juvenile design.

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We’re just better I fear. Sorry champ

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Shado-Pan genuinely just looks boring as the way I’m visualizing it is just largely stat boosts and nothing really visual going with it, compared to Rider of the Apocalypse it just seems so BLAND.

Conduit is probably fine.

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Some thoughts:

  1. I like Rider of the Apocalypse mechanically, but I don’t like the theme of summoning major lore characters to fight with you. What happens when two Riders of the Apocalypse fight in PvP? That sounds pretty immersion-breaking. If they were called “Whitemane’s Vanguard” / “Morgaine’s Honorguard” or whatever, I think that would be better. Same mechanics and lore associations, just not literally those characters.
  2. Shado Pan and Pack Master are VERY underwhelming. Both lack focus and don’t feel unified; they augment old talents instead of doing anything new. For Shado-Pan, how the heck am I supposed to spend 400 energy in 2 seconds? I also hate that this tree is going to make me take Weapons of Order over Press the Advantage because I used PtA to deal with the spec’s overwhelming button bloat.
  3. Celestial Conduit is pretty cool, but I think that it also feels all over the place with its mechanics. Also, Monk is THE most button bloated class in the game, and you’re adding more?
  4. I feel like Slayer looks pretty underwhelming. We’re not going to have the fun Tier Set bonus from Amirdrassil to really make Bloodthirst stand out, so a 10% to 20% cooldown reduction isn’t great and Slayer doesn’t really interact with Execute much besides turning it into a cooldown window enabler. I think this one should be looked at, especially when compared to the theming and expected visuals of Mountain Thane.
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Right? Like, how is a monk supposed to spend 400 energy in 2 seconds to trigger that one talent? And both of the new trees add new abilities to monks, the most button-bloated class in the game. I kind of wish they confirmed Monk is getting a rework the way Warriors got a soft-confirmation.

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Feedback on Aldrachi DH tree: BORING. Its just passives on passives on passives. Meanwhile the DK tree summons the literal 4 horsemen and they get new cool stuff…and we DH get…“faster attack speed 15%!!” and a upgraded throw glaive. This aint it chief. Please take aldrachi back to the drawing board and restart a new while you have time. Make it fun and exciting…not just generic passives.

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All in all, I agree with your assessment of this tree. I’m not impressed.

That said, you seemed to have missed a detail on the new hero trees. By time we hit 80, we will have enough points to take the whole tree. During blizcon they even demonstrated the ability to collapse the tree to leave only the choice nodes for fine tuning.

Feedback for Farseer

TLDR : Weaker versions of monks abilities.

Call of the Ancestors: Primordial Wave (Elemental) or Unleash Life (Restoration) calls an Ancestor to your side for 6 seconds. Whenever you cast a healing or damaging spell, the Ancestor will cast a similar spell.

This is a weaker version of the Monk Venthyr Ability Fallen Order, making it a passive and making it summon 1.

  • Hydrobubble: Surrounds your target in a protective water bubble for 10 seconds. The shield absorbs incoming damage, but the absorb amount decays fully over its duration.

This is Life Cocoon but weaker and random,

MONK: Encases the target in a cocoon of Chi energy for 12 sec, absorbing [Total health * 80 / 100 * (1 + Versatility)] damage and increasing all healing over time received by 50%.

SHAMAN : Surrounds your target in a protective water bubble for 10 seconds. The shield absorbs incoming damage,

Capstone is just bad just giving us one more “copy” of ourselves on an ability we basically already take and does the same thing as the ability it is replacing.
Ancestral Swiftness: Your next healing or damaging spell within 10 seconds is instant and deals 10% increased damage and healing. If you know Nature’s Swiftness , it is replaced by Ancestral Swiftness and causes Ancestral Swiftness to call an Ancestor to your side. Active ability. 45 second cooldown.

please reconsider this hero talents.

They do not fit the idea of a farseer IMO and are just weaker random copies of monk abilities. This leads to a homogenized feel of the class, there is nothing unique feeling in this. Primordial Wave does not feel rewarding to push, and tieing a whole set of talents to it that are just weaker versions of abilities another class already had makes it worse. Then making the capstone basically the same as the ability it replaces except it summons a “copy” of you does not feel like a capstone that embodies the Farseer class fantasy or game play.

Id rather see the Farseer go down the route of healing through the aspects of water and traditions of the people an ability to call on the ancestors that when pressed reworded or enhanced a major cooldown.

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Brewmaster has crazy button bloat, but Mistweaver isn’t bad. Both Holy Priest and Holy Paladin have more spells to bind than Mistweaver. I think the only healer with fewer spells than Mistweaver is Resto Shaman.

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Aldrachi Reaver is the most uninspired garbage I have ever seen in this game. Please open your eyes and realize that Vengeance has spells in its kit other than Soul Cleave. There’s so much cool design space in this spec and the developer apparently can’t think of anything other than “spam one button repeatedly”. Embarassing.

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They never said DH would get a 3rd spec, nor do we need one. We are not healers. Fel damages, not heals. We are not ranged DPS support like diablo demon hunters. A entire 3rd ranged spec around “throw glaive” would also be unwelcomed. Thats not a fun skill.

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Really?

So uninterested in this entire affair have I been, that I didn’t even know that. Thank you.

(The other columns still suck, though.)

I think they are ok, but neither is overly exciting.

My biggest complaint is that the Shado-pan tree is designed in a way that our ilvl increasing (read HP goes up) is potentially going to reduce how often we get overwhelming flurry charges.

Although, I guess the DPS increase may offset that…but it would be something that would have to be tested.