I am now afraid of this new system. The hero talents continue to be very underwhelming.
Dark Ranger
Dark Ranger being BM and MM and Sentinel being MM and Survival is a huge thematic miss, in my opinion.
Black Arrow need some dispel protection, or will be useless in pvp.
Dark Ranger should be a Class Skin, not a toolkit… its sad
Groove Keepers
I’m main druid, its thematic, apparently works well.
Druids Hero Talents Should be Druidic Clans: Druid of de Claw, Druid of Talon, Druid of Ash… etc Its probably too Nightelfic, but …
Nothing more to say here
Frostfire
This is the saddest thing I’ve seen this year.
Hero Talents for Mages were an opportunity for the Class to stop being this simple laser cannon (sometimes blue laser, sometimes purple, sometimes red). Mages should be wise wizards, masters of manipulating arcane energies, and in WOW they end up being just pew pew poew poew. This spec is just MORE PEWPEW for Mages! Why can’t we have a wizard who uses magic to save the day?? Like Jaina, Khadar and every wizard who saves people with barriers, protective portals, etc, etc… As a Warlock they offer more usefulness for the raid than a MAGE!!! My opinion: Move spellslinger to Fire-arcane and make these Hero talents the pewpew you like. Delete Sunfury, replace it with something like “Guardian Wizard”, and make a damn Spec Support for mages! Put it in the place of the old Spellslinger. Transform Frostfire into an “elementalist” spec based on dealing Heat Shock damage. Ignited enemy takes extra frost dmg. Frozen targets take extra fire dmg. And if you were really brave, give the wizard an Electric spell, so he can use it on the target that has just been thawed.
Oracles:
Support should be a Role. Healer is already the most complex role in the game. Are you still going to do cure and supp at the same time? Not to mention the OBVIOUS meta that will be created with this. I love Supp Role. But as a DPS SUPP, but this? I like the concept, and like the Idea. Im my impopolar opinion, Disc should by Supp DPS…
I agree. The Fire side benefits way less from Frost, because Frost spells intrinsically work better with themselves.
Frostfire for Fire seems to be relevant mostly for PvP atm (where the extra control / utility will be used). But I wonder if the Arcane + Fire build would the be “PvE Hero Talent” for Fire,
Meltdown is likely meant for PvP / Solo play. I guess some folks might use it for PvE encounters if an immunity is needed and moving around as well.
Frostfire Bolt (Fire) - Even if Fire doesn’t hardcast it as Frost, I believe it could be useful due to Frostfire Empowerment making an it instant, guarentee crit. If tunning needs it, Frostfire Empowerment can have a higher proc rate for Fire.
Flame & Frost (Fire) - Yes, the extra effect on Cauterize (for Fire) doesn’t seem as strong as the extra Dragon’s Breath / Blast Wave on Cold Snap (for Frost).
I think it would be better if Fire got Cold Snap, because then it doesn’t rely on dying to make use of it.
Shield is not really worth pressing as holy unless you talent into the movement buff, it blocks about 40-50k damage which is not a lot with our health pools now, slightly more if it crits the gdc is not worth it. It’s worth it on disc cause of atonement.
Totally agree!
Fire, Frost and Arcano only make sense in Vanilla, where you put some talents here some there.
Mages specializtions should be Conjuration, necromancy, Abjuration, evocation, transmutation and etc. Unfortunately, it seems that wanting this is wanting too much.
Sorry but i’m main druid for 20y. I liked Pet heal style.
Its thematical : iIt’s crazy how it took so long to include more plants and trees in DRUID spells
Its powerfull
And now will be optional! Using Elunes Blessed u will be free from pets
Maybe swapping Sentinel for Dark Ranger would work better? Dark Ranger doesn’t really fit into BM.
I am also concerned about talents/hero talents getting more complex again and ending up in a situation where New players are turned off and also into a place where things get so bloated that we end up doing another “simplification” were talents and skills get removed…because of button bloat.
In WC3 Huntresses were the cavalry unit with the short-range bouncing glaive, while the archers were just… Archers. “Sentinels” was the name of the night elven military as a whole, not a distinct unit.
So Marks/Surv to represent the Archers and Huntresses respectively would seem the best fit.
Why you add more buttons to hunter. Bloated already and it is the only class that can accomodate me after i stick hand between saw and tree 3 years ago and now have a pincer for left hand.
I think this presentation format is the wrong way to approach it, you are forcing people to view talents in isolation without understand the other choice they will have. That is going to lead to quite a few people not liking one talent tree when they might like the other.
A far better approach is to present by class and role. lets take druids for example, show all the options for Balance druids at the same, all options for feral, etc, that way people can compare and contrast both paths.
The other problem you are going to run into is the wording on some of the talents are simply too complex. I should be able to read the description of a talent and easily understand its impact, use case and synergies without needing some complex guide.
As for the druid one, i dont mind it being centered around treants, but adding extra health for them is pointless, unless you also make them last longer. After the first 3 weeks of every season they will not be killed before their spell timer runs out, so an extra 50% is pointless.
That being said, there are people who are not going to like the treat gameplay and that is fine, which is why it becomes key for them to be able to see the other path they can take and compare them side by side. Otherwise you are going to get a lot of flak from people who will think this is the only viable approach they will have.
I agree. It’s essentially Shadowlands Covenant Conduits / Soulbind Powers in its expression of minute complexity. A bunch of classes are hurting for core talent tree refinement (Fury/Arms Warrior, WW Monk, etc) and here we’re just adding more resource bloat.
Honestly, I feel like these are just another few rows of talents. I was disappointed that development seems focused on just “numbers” and “new-but-not-really-new ways to do those numbers” rather than giving us some new “fun” to be had. I feel like this is the perfect opportunity for fun or cool aesthetic changes, like bring back shirvallah for druid, or centaur/laughing sister forms, or let another class (like druid) have and collect animal companions like a hunter (they could even have their own roles that are different than hunters, like healing or spell damage, to make them feel different, or maybe they just hang out and dance around barking/growling with a buff/aura, who cares, lets have some fun hehe). Or ways that give a class more tanky/survival abilities (without changing their roles) to smooth out grinding out in the world, like giving back dark apotheosis to warlocks. I had so much fun using dark apotheosis and playing my warlock wrong. I’d love to see all the totems return, I had so much fun setting up a 4 pack shop of totems on my shaman, or even setting up an 8 pack by standing where another shaman is standing and turning my body perfectly to interlace both of our totem packs into a huge ring. Fun is my reoccurring theme. This is the perfect place to give us fun rather than power. I doubt everyone agrees with me, but we always seem to get class power every expansion, but we don’t always get class fun. Here is your chance!
I do enjoy the Beast Master Hunter, but would say that the only thing I’m not personally a fan of is the idea of attaching talent requirements to them. Such as Intense Darkness increasing the DoT haste during Call of the Wild, which is a talent I’d have to use with the Dark Ranger Hero talent pool. Shadow Surge is another example where I’d prefer something tied into other abilities. Otherwise, if I ever choose the Dark Ranger I know I’ll pretty much have to get those talents to make full use of the sub-spec.
That’s really only complaint, uh, it’s a little stifling. Maybe try adding a few more choice nodes so that players can mix and match different talents. Like, instead of Call of the Wild for Intense Darkness, make a choice node with Bestial Wrath, and instead of Multi-Shot for Shadow Surge make a choice node with Barbed Shot.
So there is a lot to be desired after seeing what the Priest Oracle Hero Path talent tree has shown off.
So I will once again toss my Hero Path ideas in the ring with a major Focus on Shadow Priest Hero Paths.
Hero Path Talents
Below, I will show an example of a direction the Hero Path talents can go into.
Archon (Shadow)
Psychic Leaning theme
Non-Periodic damage focus
DPS Talents
Deaths Release
Shadow Word: Death deals damage as if the target is below 20% health while under the effects of Dark Ascension.
Cycle of Death
Your Shadow Word: Death cooldown is reduced by 50% while under the effects of Dark Ascension.
Deaths Reach
Your Shadow Word: Death strikes 2 additional nearby targets while under the effects of Dark Ascension.
Echos of Death
Your Shadow Word: Death triggers 2 additional times at 20% effectiveness.
Dark Embrace
Your Non-Periodic damage critical strikes extend the duration of Dark Ascension by 1 second.
Maniac
Mind Spike cast time is reduced by 50% after you critically strike with Mind Blast for the next 3 seconds.
Dark Archon
Your Shadow Word: Pain periodic damage grants you Dark Archon [buff], increasing the damage of your next Shadow Word: Death by 10%. Stacking up to 5.
Blood Archon
Your Vampiric Touch periodic damage grants you Blood Archon [buff] increasing the damage of your next Devouring Plague spell by 5% and heals your group for 20% of the damage dealt. Stacking up to 5.
Death Throes
Your Mind Spells deal 10% more damage for 6 seconds when you critically strike with Shadow Word: Death. Stacking up to 3.
Tormented Wraith
You have a 50% chance to spawn a Wraith when your Shadow Word: Death deals damage to a target below 20% health and 100% chance when you land a killing blow. Lasting for 6 seconds.
Tormented Wraiths charge at your enemies cleaving with Wraith Strike [cone attack] inflicting them with Reapers Mark. Reapers Mark increases the chance for your non-periodic damage to critically strike by 5% and your critical strike damage bonus by 10% for 10 seconds, stacking up to 3.
Archon (Holy/Shadow)
Psychic Leaning theme
Talents
Intertwining Fates
Your Twist of fate increases your damage and healing done by an additional 10%.
Suppressive Words
When your Holy Word spells heals a friendly target, the damage the target takes is reduced by 10% for 5 seconds.
When your Shadow Word spells damage an enemy target, the damage the target inflicts is reduced by 10% for 5 seconds.
(Choice)
Praying for Death
When Prayer of Mending is bounced from Shadow Word: Death backlash damage, your damage and healing is increased by 10% for 8 seconds.
Psionic Energy
Holy: Healing done from your Holy Word spells generate a stack of Psionic Energy. Reaching 20 stacks fill you with power and causing you to erupt, dealing pulse healing to your allies within 20 yards every second for 3 seconds.
Shadow: Damage dealt by your Shadow Word spells generate a stack of Psionic Energy. Reaching 20 stacks causes the next target to receive damage from your Mind Spells to erupt, dealing pulsing damage to every enemy within 20 yards every second for 3 seconds.
Psionic Power
When Psionic Energy erupts, your Psychic Link damage and healing increases by 5% for 30 seconds. Stacking up to 3.
Psionic Force
Psionic Energy pulse deals 100% more damage and healing with each consecutive pulse.
Archon (Holy)
Psychic Leaning theme
Non-Periodic healing focus
Talents
Psychic Link
Your single target Holy Word spells heal 25% of the healing done to targets affected by your Renew within 40 yards.
Psionic Focus
Gaining a stack of Psionic Power increases the healing of your single target healing spells and reduces the mana cost by 10% per stack.
Shadow Reflection
When an enemy strikes you or your group while your Renew is active, they become afflicted with Shadow Word: Pain, with the remaining duration left of the Renew.
Voidweaver (Shadow)
Voidform draining mechanic (optional)
Periodic Damage focus
DPS Talents
Surender to Madness
Voidform increase your Shadow damage by 1% every second and no longer has a cooldown or duration limit but causes your Insanity to drain increasingly faster until it reaches 0 and Voidform ends.
(Choice)
Glimpse of the Void
Your Shadow Word: Pain and Vampiric Touch deal damage an additional time when Devouring Plague critically strikes.
Embrace the Void
While Voidform is active, your spells generate 100% more Insanity and can be cast while moving.
(Choice)
Mass Hysteria
Your periodic damage is increased by 2% per second while under the effects of Voidform, up to 100%.
Festering Rot
Devouring Plague can stack up to 5 times on a single target.
Dark Contagion
Your Devouring Plague duration is increased by 1 second each time it’s periodic damage critically strikes.
Shattered Mind
Your channeling spells deal damage 33% faster.
Abyssal Reflection
You have a 20% chance to duplicate Shadowy Apparitions spawned by your spells.
Void Corruption
Vampiric Touch radiates 10% of its damage to nearby enemy targets, Max (5).
Void Fiend
Your Shadow Fiend replicates its damage to every target afflicted with your Shadow Word: Pain and increases the periodic damage they receive by 10%.
Void Bolt
Sends a bolt of pure void energy at every enemy afflicted with Vampiric Touch and dealing 10% of the total Vampiric Touch damage with each bolt.
(Choice)
Void Ray
Your Mind Flay deals 5% more damage for each periodic damage effect on the target.
Void Eruption
Releases an explosive blast of pure void energy causing Shadow damage to all enemies within 10 yards of your target.
(Choice)
Black Hole (Perhaps a candidate to replace/compete with Shadow Crash)
Create a Black Hole in a targeted area. Enemy targets are quickly pulled towards its center, dealing increasing damage the closer they get. Touching the center stuns the target for 1 seconds. Lasts for 10 seconds.
Voidweaver (Discipline/Shadow)
Mind spells and shielding/absorbing spells crossover
Talents
Dark Covenant
Discipline: Smite becomes Mind Flay during Shadow Covenant and chains up to 4 additional targets, dealing 20% more damage per linked target.
Shadow: You form a Void Covenant, causing Devouring Plague to pulse 30% of its periodic damage to nearby targets while under the effects of Voidform, Max (5).
Mind Meld
Targets afflicted with your Shadow Word: Pain take 10% more damage from your Mind Spells.
Voidweaver (Discipline)
Talents
Power Word: Twilight
Casting Power Word: Shield while under the effects of Shadow Covenant reduces the damage the target takes by 10%.
Twilight Equilibrium
When your Shadow Word: Pain critically strikes, 50% of the damage done gets converted into a damage absorption shield for up to 15% of your total health for 10 seconds.
Class/spec/Hero Path agnostic Utility Talents
Talents
Horrifying Scream
Your Psychic Scream now horrifies your targets, causing your enemies unable to break the fear effect but reducing the duration by 50%.
(Choice)
Persisting Image
Your Fade effects lasts 50% longer.
Touch the Void
When cast on yourself, Your Power Word: Shield absorbs 100% more damage. You spawn Void Tendrils, rooting all targets within 8 yards when Power Word: Shield breaks from damage.
OR
Soul of Strength
Your Power Word: Shield absorbs 200% more and weakened soul duration is increased by 100%.
If dispelled, weakened soul duration is reduced by 50%.
(Choice)
Shadowmend
Your Flash Heal becomes Shadowmend, increasing healing by 200% and mana cost by 100%.
Flirting with Death
Shadow Word: Death backlash damage is reversed over 6 seconds, healing you for 100% of the damage dealt. Stacking up to 3.
(Choice)
Vampiric Essence
Your Vampiric Touch heals your group for 5% of the damage done and Vampiric Embrace provides up to 10% max health damage absorption shield for your party.
Link below to my original feedback including a more in depth look and changes to Shadows current Specialization Talent tree…
If this just replaces power infusion, then the talent that buffs the priest with power infusion, when they give it to someone else, should in theory apply to these as well. Which means throwing someone else a buff, will also buff yourself. We’ll see if it ends up working like that though.
