blushes
/10char
1 Like
I agree with this. If the direction that Blizzard wants to take is one where gear doesnât really hold such a massive weight like it does the we need more cosmetics to compensate for that. To give players something to work toward.
To be honest, I find it to be a chicken and the egg query, was it players requesting obscene requirements that forced Blizzard to increase rewards? Or was it increased availability of rewards that caused players to request obscene requirements for the content?
Gearing wasnât trivial through PvP though really, it was a considerable time investment to acquire.
The reason PvP gearing in TBC was so prevalent was that it allowed an alternate path to gear for unstructured (non-premade) content.
If you couldnât raid for what ever reason, PvP became a viable alternative.
That being said, the gear acquired through that content was nowhere near optimal for PvE content (whereas modern gear is almost identical regardless of content path). A lot of stat allocation in TBC PvP gear was itemised towards resilience, a stat completely useless in a PvE scenario.
To be honest Iâm not sure where this comment fits in the context of raider io. Blizzards philosophy has slowed down the game in terms of being able to grind things such as rep and currency, however the remainder of the game has been vastly sped up.
Content accessibility and gearing is at an all time high in BfA.
You cannot honestly argue that there was a quicker time to gear up and access content in WoW. Itâs never happened.
If you are referring to the GCDâŠwell apart from being a completely different topic, the GCD change is so minor for all but dps DKs and BM Hunters as to be pretty much irrelevant.
Blizzard does not âslow down the gameâ by making you wait 1.5s (reduced by haste) on a GCD once every 2-5 minutes to âmake people play longerâ.
Raider io is a product of the environment. Player judging and assessment has been around since the very beginning of WoW. It coalesced into a solid form in WotLK with gearscore when ilvl became an available measurement and it has evolved from there.
Players rely on metrics to judge a players worth when they donât have anything else to go on. Itâs not like the early days of WoW where people knew each other because now we can group up with tens of thousands of people which we may potentially never see again.
1 Like
That already puts you far ahead in dialogue of many of the people opposed to the current reward structure.
Iâm not opposed to talking about things and trying to find solutions that improve the lives of mythic raiders without negatively impacting everyone else. The problem is that every single suggestion Iâve seen always boils down to increasing the relative power disparity or making things that are currently not exclusive to mythic raiders exclusive (i.e. one guy suggested locking all tmog from a raid after the tier ends so that people could never get, say, mythic transmog even if they went back an expansion later) which is just taking content away from other people to appease mythic raiders. Either of those two options is a no go in my book.
I see a lot of people mocking the OP over his post, but the issue he brings up is a valid issue.
The devs have introduced a system of gearing that discourages raiding at normal - sometimes heroic - levels, and invalidates nearly all but +10 or higher M+ dungeonsâ gear. Why join a raid guild only doing normal and heroic, or do low-to-mid level keys when you can get gear of the same level from doing an emissary, or from doing a warfront, or from a weekly event quest? Itâs a design choice that actively hurts not only non-mythic raiding, but server communities as well.
This is just one of many things the devs have done that moves the game away from community. Iâd honestly wager they donât realize that theyâre causing this issue, as well. They make a change thinking itâll be good for the game, subs go down and server communities start dwindling because of the change. Instead of reverting it, they start making changes that further decrease subs and further hurt server communities, likely because of a mindset that they have to keep as many current subs as possible, not thinking about what they could be doing to bring back subs that they lost.
Itâs a little frustrating, honestly. WoW is supposed to be a Massively Multiplayer game, but itâs more and more being designed to be single player capable, which in and of itself isnât a bad thing, but when the means by which they design the game to have a solo experience hurts the group experience the game had, thatâs where things start going downhill, in my opinion.
7 Likes
If that were so why do people who wish to form pug groups have a rough time with rio even when they are geared to do so.And donât tell me they can form their own group when it is easier to get the access to do raids regardless in a group finder without this judgement.
If they have never started raiding in the first place they wouldnât have a record to go by rio so they wouldnât be picked,there for it slows down the progression of first time raiders.
If the subs are going down, which to be honest we are only basing on speculation, Iâm not sure if even Blizzard knows (or perhaps the players themselves) why they are leaving.
The number of people that actually fill in the comments for âwhy they unsubscribedâ would I expect, not be in the majority.
People like myself could also be skewing the data as well, ever since WoD/Legion I have never kept a subscription active, always renew a few months and immediately cancel. If other people do similar things it could show people leaving the game when they havenât necessarily stopped playing.
This guy gets it. Theyâve turned this into a single player game. Every QoL that follows worsens the problem.
3 Likes
I will partake in group content just not always serious content.
Is this of now or from the start of BFA?
I assume by âgeared to do soâ you are meaning ilvl correct?
In that respect it is because of exactly how Raider IO is designed. Itâs not a gearscore indicator, but a score determined by how successful you have been in content you have actually completed.
Being 415+ ilvl means nothing in an IO system when you have never completed a M+2.
So for Raider IO to work for you, you need both the equivalent ilvl AND the expected scoring for that content.
Itâs absolutely true that if players havenât done the content they are on the back foot with IO. But then again itâs still because as far as the system shows, you havenât had the experience to do that content.
Iâm not as up to date with the raiding side of IO. But generally speaking M0 and low mythics donât have any or at least steep requirements.
If you havenât been in the system you quite simply have to grind your way up to the point where your experience becomes relevant.
The fact that you out gear that content so it is less rewarding is simply a symptom of allowing other content to reward similar or better gear rewards.
If only raids and M+ for example rewarded 380+ gear, seeing someone in 380+ gear would instantly allow you to understand the content that person is able to do. So they wouldnât need the previous hurdles.
When you can surpass those requirements with little difficulty players make those hurdles a solid requirement.
1 Like
I understand where the poster is coming from with the âlocking all Mythic mogsâ mentality because of having to do Mythic raids myself during Legion. I was along for the ride until ToS hit and I had to take the reins of Raid Leader. Itâs hard. LikeâŠreally hard to clear a raid on Mythic (EN says hello I know I know). Something else Iâd like to mention is that I have dabbled in PvP enough to at least get some Elite sets and tabards under my belt. So I think where the idea comes from is a mix of both the mentality that your effort should be rewarded with something that you can say that you and anyone else that decided to pour their blood, sweat and tears into as well as how the complete opposite side of the game does their reward structure. Let it be known that I donât agree with said poster.
In terms of how we should be doing the gearing, in my opinion I still lean on the Thunderforging system with a designated cap per level of difficulty. If someone gets lucky and gets a Thunderforged item! Hurrah! Very helpful!If someone isnât as lucky, well they arenât left in the dust and can use a currency to give themselves gear upgrades.
One of Blizzards statements if I recall it correctly was that it helped with struggles of bosses that are walls for certain guilds. And I also think itâs worth mentioning how many slots youâd have to upgrade before you felt satisfied if thatâs your goal. And thatâs not even mentioning the different sets youâll have for different situations and encounters.
But if there was anything that I would say that could be exclusive that I donât believe would really hurt anyone would be a tabard for getting Cutting Edge.
3 Likes
Then itâs a waste of time for most players and it just a form of judgement.Itâs no wonder why players donât do them and flock to lfr and do WQ gear,so it is the system fault in the end.
People who have never been through it wonât understand. I rejoined my guild after taking 8 months off during Nighthold under the stipulation that I would never be an officer. Here we areâŠ1 patch in to BFA and Iâm the raid leader and recruiting officer. The bosses are only half the battle, keeping a roster during one of the worst expansions ever has been as hard as going 8/9 Mythic, and I am fully prepared for classic to finish off my guild. However, it would be nice to have something to show for all the effort everyone put in.
1 Like
This is a lie. The system is cyclical. Each tier everything gets increased, including normal and heroic dungeons all the way up to mythic raiding. If you do only solo world content you slowly progress up to a softcap in the ballpark of what a heroic raider if they get lucky with slots and forges gets to by the end of the tier but the heroic raider gets there much, much faster. Then if they want they go into mythic and get even higher. So if a casual isnât ever intending to do organized group content, how is it invalidating organized group content? Oh, thatâs right, itâs not, itâs just giving them a progression path they didnât have before and instead of being relegated to 1/3 or 1/2 the power of a mythic raider, now theyâre 90%.
Boo freaking hoo.
Iâd have no problem with new cosmetic content being designated as mythic during the season only. But locking tmogs from old tiers out removes content from people that enjoy farming old expansion stuff. And thatâs not something thatâs currently restricted so thereâs no reason to make it exclusive. In short, no qualms whatsoever about a tabard for Cutting Edge.
Right now forging helps close the gap from top to bottom. People churn out lower ilvl rewards much faster than higher ilvl rewards, which combined with the forge cap resulting in lower forges having larger forge possibilities means forging helps decrease the gap from top to bottom. Iâm not opposed to deterministic systems, but those deterministic systems need to maintain the relative power comparable to what we have now. Which is why capping forges or limited forges is more advantageous power-wise to those people on the top, even if the reason people often state isnât power related. Hell, weâve all seen people crying about 425 turtle killing forges, many people in this thread have made those kinds of statements.
But we also have to acknowledge that fishing for forges is content for people. Whether itâs chain running high M+ for the bonus loot or doing Emissaries when someone is over 400 ilvl. Removing that removes content that people active engage in now that they wouldnât have afterwards. That content needs to be replaced with something. Something that maintains that inherent advantage for people lower on the ilvl spectrum.
Oh definitely. It kind of stinks that after we got our Cutting Edge on Argus that the only person that got the mount unsubbed shortly after and we donât really hear much from them. I think it would add a whole lot more if there was something cosmetic that you got for getting Cutting Edge that you and your guild can line up with and take a picture on.
But yeah I gave in after we didnât make it on Gâhuun and decided that it wasnât worth the stress. Personally looking forward to Classic and the challenges Iâll have to face with raid leading that.
1 Like
Same. My guild basically died during Uldir, we were down to 16 raiders and didnât raid for a month or so. Thatâs why Iâm in the position I am now. Then we didnât get Gâhuun down either (4%), lost more people lol. We had to cancel our last raid due to 2 emergencies and a computer blowing up, it never ends. Iâm pretty confident we will get Jaina down in the next week or 2, I just hope whoever gets the mount uses it, cause the rest of us wonât have anything to show for it.
2 Likes
There is another egregious problem thats going on with gearing as well, is once you hit around 405 ilvl. You are basically at the mercy of RNG and hoping items titan and warforge to be better Its a real feels bad man place to be.
Best of luck to you guys on Jaina. Iâm rooting for you!
But why? Why is this bad? Why do non-mythic raider needs mythic level gear if they are not mythic raiding.
Why do non-INSERT ACTIVITY need INSERT ACTIVITY level gear if they are not doing INSERT ACTIVITY.
3 Likes