That works maybe for the basic items which anyway when I run with other guild groups they just give out after a couple weeks. Not everyone is running out of ToC with death choice or Ulduar with flares even after 20 weeks.
That is what I said, if someone could outbid you from the start they would win the item. If they never wanted to outbid you that’s not the same.
Cool. So run with your guild group? I… don’t understand what your point is, if in fact you have one?
Youtube told him its bad, so its bad
This is definitely the answer. Just me but I’d never waste a lockout on a PuG unless it was a mostly guild run and I was interested in joining. Maybe a lot of people don’t enjoy the guild experience, but I wouldn’t even be playing without it.
For the first 2+ years of classic I only ran with guild groups. Since Wotlk we’ve kind of all fragmented and gone our separate ways though, even though a lot of us still play. But without GDKP’s offering a compelling way to raid without having to join a terrible SR pug or commit to restructuring my life around a game I only half care to play… I probably wouldn’t play at all anymore. And as an added bonus, I can cover the cost of 3 months of subs with a single 25 man run. 
Different strokes, I guess. $15 a month is nothing to me, I’d never pay my sub in gold. But I still enjoy the game, so if I only half cared to play maybe that would make sense. Although, I’d just quit in that case.
It’s nothing to most people. It’s still a cost. And if you figure I can make 15k running a 1 hour GDKP, thats over $60/hr for playing a video game vs working to earn the money. Not a bad ROI.
Cool? Or… you could spend an hour playing and fund your account for… 3 months. Or at least I can. At level 75 you’d probably find it a little more difficult.
Yeah, we did that and then suddenly people want to reroll or bring in their alt to “soak” the gear so it doesn’t rot. No one cares about that tank’s off-spec, even though my tank is DPS for half the fights. GDKP just works better there too because tank gear is cheap and tanks get an extra cut, so if I want DPS gear then I can just bid on it.
Tanks do pretty much get gear for free in GDKP’s. But also it’s a thankless job so not even mad at them.
You can scroll up and see what I’m saying.
My point is not against GDKPs but against the system.
If Blizzard wants pugs to thrive they should go toward a soft lockout model and remove Master loot from pugs. You’re free to still do GDKPs with group loot if you want to after that or to make people join a guild for it.
I’ll still play with my guilds but if I want to pug on my alts or 10m I want more options. I don’t want to be locked to bad groups if I happen to get into one and I’d rather the loot is not ninja by a master looter or reserved at all if I’m pugging as that reduce the number of viable groups I can join.
What purpose would that serve? You’re simply removing player choice…
Ok… but you’re proposing removing options so…
Ok… But removing Master Loot isn’t going to solve any of those issues. If anything it’ll make it worse. You think its easier to trust 25 random people or 1 person with their name on the line…
And you’re assuming that all those GDKP groups would just magically become SR groups. But that’s just not reality. The reality is… in the absence of GDKP a lot of those people just aren’t going to raid at all…
You would have the option, but the default one wouldn’t be master loot anymore and you wouldn’t have to trust people 100% to do the content. This removes a lot of gatekeeping.
I’d rather trust everyone personally than a master looter from a group that I don’t know yes.
I’ve had way more problems with master looter with pugs than any other systems.
It’s also why I refuse to do content with pugs and only trusted guilds.
The default is not in fact Master Loot… The default is group loot.
I’ve almost never had problems with ML, mostly because the people running these raids do so multiple times every week and their rep is valuable to them. In 3 years of running GDKP’s in Classic I’ve NEVER seen a pot ninja’d or even heard of it really… I’ve seen plenty of random pugs randomly need on items and DC however… If you’re trusting 25 people to “do the right thing” in a raid, particularly when something especially valuable drops… you’re going to be frequently disappointed.
Even in retail they removed master loot because it caused too many problems with ninjas.
It’s surprising if anything that they haven’t changed it for wotlk which was a pug expansion.
I believe with a group loot system like retail that value your spec for loot rolling that it would be way better for pugs yes.
But yes as long as you’ll let people abuse others with master loot they will keep doing it. And if you don’t want it then you won’t be able to find much groups. Like I said if you keep it to guild groups only that will remove random pugs from pushing master loot, people aren’t gonna leave their guilds just to raid.
It’s the default option because it’s the one where you can rig in your favor the most as someone that makes a group.
They briefly removed all alternative forms of looting and moved everything to personal loot.
And it was such a disaster that they reverted to the classic loot system.
No they reverted to a modified group loot system. Which I am asking.
There is no master loot in retail, but you can use group loot like one.
The problem with personnal loot is mostly that you can abuse it by stacking class, it’s not healthy for the game because of that.
And they’ve said they would like to go back to allowing Master Loot but they haven’t been able to yet because of technical limitations, not because they don’t think it’s a good system.
What they say and what they do are 2 things. I’ll believe it when I see it.
And even if they do it, they’ll never add it to pugs again that’s just not happening.
It will be guilds only.
Which is also what I am suggesting anyway.
I don’t really see the problem unless you fear that removing master loot for pugs is a problem. If your fear is less people will do GDKPs then that is totally a fine thing for me.
What does that even mean lol? How do you expect Blizzard to differentiate between whether a group is a “guild or pug” group rofl? Zero shot they’re going to design a system that like “only works if everyone in the raid has the same guild tag,” even if they could.
Aside from the fact it’d just be awkward in general, it would just lead to stupid stuff like people being pressured to drop their guilds to join raid. That would just be a terrible system.
They had that system in Legion, so it’s not something they can’t do.
It’s kinda easy yes, they just check if everyone in the group is in your guild ingame. If that’s true then the option master loot is added to the option.
And yes people won’t want to leave their guild which is the point. You’ve made it so it wasn’t the default options for pugs anymore by making it so people do not want to leave their guild just to partake in that system publicly. But if you really care about that system you can still make a guild and make people join.
Because I believe that for pugs to thrive they need to be open by removing master loot from most pugs and by removing reserving gear from most pugs. And by making raids have a soft lockout so you can join a run whenever you want and not feel pressured to have to finish it at all cost or be scuffed because you took a risk with bad group.