r u sure ?
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my dude are you referring to me?
cause yeah i know that, hence why i said the average player has an impact on inflation.
the average player generates raw gold just by the very nature of the game systems in place.
i never said that economies dont change, they change by the very nature of playing the game.
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Nope, the forums are terrible about quoting people properly. I agree with you the implication that RMT and GDKP are the only things that make it hard for an entry level player to get into the economy is just silly.
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all good mate.
keep up the good fight
But it really isnât the Wild Wild West. We have gotten some changes and tweaks in the life of Classic already, but we also started at the end of Vanillaâs life cycle, so the biggest problems were no longer necessary to manage because they were already settled. I get that you donât trust the current Devs, but it doesnât change the setup at all. The guardrails are still very much intact, the Devs have shown they have the power and ability to adjust those guardrails as they see fit, and they havenât stepped into restricting Boosting or GDKP.
They even lightened the restrictions around 30 instances/day, 5 instances/hour implemented to combat some of the botting problem, in consideration of those doing the runs on their own authentically as well as those receiving and performing Boosting.
Whatâs right to do is a matter of morality, what is permissible is a matter of law. In the US if I find a wallet full of cash with no identification in a public place, what Iâm to do with it depends on the jurisdiction and the amount found.
- We have rules against waste.
- We have rules against theft.
- We have rules supporting good stewardship.
- We have rules mandating specific duties regarding property.
So while I could try to return a lost wallet with a lot of money in it to some arbitrary Lost & Found, I could also not touch it at all in the hopes the owner returns and finds it. I could also note that there is no way I can find the owner, I have no way to trust the Lost & Found, so Iâll take the money and⌠donate it? Use it to treat my coworkers? Treat my wife? My kids? Myself? This isnât a clear-cut Disney cartoon where we can just look up and find the man who has a massive outline around his back pocket where his uniquely shaped wallet is supposed to be while a crowd of children cheer me on as I return it.
I donât think we have enough insight to make any such judgment calls in this game. When I soloâd the water boss in DME for my Mage water quest using the weird pathing around his little pool⌠was I being appropriately clever or nefariously exploitative? Am I inherently being evil by soloing content thatâs labeled as (Group) or (Dungeon)?
What youâre saying here is that weâre all our own moral compasses and thatâs⌠well thatâs just subjective and untenable. It makes your disgust just subjective disgust, red vs blue preference, and of no real consequence.
Not the legitimate farming that creates problems.
Its just gold bidding, there are not DKP functions in that system at all, not even slightly. DKP is a system, (Dragon Kill Points) and there are numerous variants of the system, but it basically works like this, You get points for killing bosses, or completing raids or however the points are awarded, but they are there to Promote Raid attendance. DKP has its own problems, but âGoldâ buying of items is not DKP, itâs nothing of the sort.
Soft Res runs are a new thing too me, I have been part of a few doing pugs on my alts, and they seem ok, its more or less just an organized Random Roll kinda a thing.
Actually I knew a few people whom purchased gold, quite a lot of it actually. I did not sell them the gold, but I do know who sold them the gold and I did report the seller (who did get banned) and those people did participate in your Gold purchase runs.
RightâŚ
Why are bargain basement prices for raid mats bad? Random easy to acquire items like copper ore is skyrocketing in price. You would not believe the GP per hour you can make just farming the mats people need to level profession - especially since the inflated economy allows people to be lazy now regardless of what you charge them.
I donât mind the inflation level allowing me to make decent gold to pay for raid mats and repairs with some basic farming.
so far Iâve seen a few people mention that inflation ruined the game for them. Iâm aware every realmâs economy is different so please state how it ruined it for you. Please enlighten us.
Legitimate farming creates massive amounts of gold however, enough that a year+ of doing so when not raiding or PvPing could handily net someone several hundred thousand gold by now, all by themselves.
You earn DKP typically by doing raids, killing bosses, showing up, etc. It is a time investment system that rewards the most invested when they so choose to cash in.
GDKP just translates that subjective set of investments and makes it something universally traded and acquirable: gold. Gold are the points, and you can earn lots and lots of gold by investing lots and lots of time into the game doing a variety of activities. Someone dropping 50k+ on an item because 5 months ago they went on a crazy farming binge day after day thanks to COVID is little different than the ever-present MT dropping truckloads of DKP on Kiss of the Spider because heâs there every week, never misses an assignment, and takes very little loot otherwise, specifically for this purpose.
Here we go again with the zyrius silliness. I never claimed or expected an economy to not change over time. What the hell kind of defense of RMT is that supposed to be, anyway?
Again, never claimed otherwise. But if you are going to take this absurd tact to white knight RMT and the resulting GDKP/Boosting/Etc affects it has, then IU am just going to sit back and laugh at you⌠again.
âplay styleâ 
I love GDKPâs and would want them to continue IF bots didnât exist and we lived in an ideal WoW world. That not being the case, GDKPs are terrible for WoW because of gold buyers, and since bots and buyers arenât going to be stopped in any meaningful way, then at least banning GDKPs will at least severely decrease the demand for buying gold and of course you have to go back to good old fashion loot distribution and not who has the biggest purse. Classic WoW GDKPs ARE Pay to Win now and itâll just get worse if it doesnât stop.
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Truth, mages can basically print gold in certain dungeons, its rather comical.
Actually one of the biggest problems with classical DKP systems, too many people fall into the âNeed that itemâ trap and donât gear until they get that item. Bigger problem in old vanilla and less a problem in Classic but still happens.
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Iâve stated multiple times blizzard should address gold sellers. But if youâre going to take the absurb stance that without GDKP those RMTâs would magically go away Iâll be the one laughing.
Yes just like how raiding with LC or raiding with DKP/EPGP or using open rolls open rolls or using HR/SR is a valid play style for raiding.
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What I love about these threads is that thereâs always a few people pointing out that if such systems (boosting, mass AOE farming, mob pathing manipulation, GDKP, etc.) were rampant in Vanilla, theyâd have been fixed immediately. No one ever responds to those points.
Iâve come to the conclusion that the #nochanges community wanted no changes not because they wanted a faithful recreation of the Vanilla experience, but because they wanted legitimate alternatives to private servers where they could continue cheesing to their heartâs content, without the fear of the rug being pulled from under them by Big Daddy Blizz.
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source on they would have done away with these systems?
cause that is speculation.
look i was for nochanges, simply because i wanted as close to the original experience as possible without as many modern changes as possible since my faith in the devs was and still is incredibly low.
people are going to learn systems as they play the game and then do everything they can to optimize their gameplay to high fudging heck to min max away as much probability for failure as they can. thats just what weve always done as gamers.
that being said is there toxic stuff happening in classic that i would love to see taken out, yes. lots actually.
but that doesnt mean things like gdkp or boosting are actually the problem but a sign of the sickness. bots, knowning where to effectively grind, knowning what items hold value, better machines to play on, better internet connections and overall better player skill all impact the game more than gdkp and boosting.
without gdkp or boosting, youâll still have people buying gold because they want to buy gold. simple. some people just want gold to have it, just like real life with real money. some people just want more and more to lord over others.
also the most effective way to launder illicit gold would be to use the ah.
buy materials and popular items with the illicit gold, that gets shuffled to the mass population as a whole, you gain items you can attempt to sell back to the dupes and make back or in some cases exceed your original starting capital and then repeat to hearts desire.
so if your main concern is laundering gold from gold buying then the next logical conclusion would be to close the ah to secure and make sure no more gold buying is happening right?
Zerg has made this point more than once and it has been refuted as well since it relied heavily on speculation and ignoring inconvenient evidence.
- Boosting would be fine because player-player interactions were very rarely regulated due to the entirely voluntary nature of them
- Mass AoE farming would be fine because it was done in Vanilla, complete with videos and guides, and it wasnât touched
- Mob pathing might have been changed on a case-by-case basis, depending on the egregiousness according to the Devs, not the whining players
- GDKP would have been fine for the same reason Boosting was fine
It just isnât an argument when you have to play What-If speculation to support a point that isnât held up by any evidence. Classic Devs even made sure to pull back somewhat on the instance lockout restrictions knowing full well that Boosting and Farming were things.
/shrug
Well blizzard did actually nerf aoe to cap itâs damage limits later on so yeah that they definitely considered an issue. And I would say they were a lot more willing to address terrain exploits in vanilla and early on.
Would they have done anything about GDKPâs or boosting? Almost certainly no blizzard has always been okay with using gold to pay for loot and services in WoW. Whether thatâs boostings, GDKPâs, buying a raid spot heck even buying arena rankings.
i agree by tbc they did view aoe, especially mages, as an issue.
but again that was tbc.
as for terrain and pathing, iâm still not sold on this as anything other than speculation.
/shrug
actually it is.
I have a legion of friends in china that farm gold for me. Well I donât but you get my point or are being deliberately obtuse.
I donât like GDKP, Iâve made no secret about it. But I think a GDKP that isnât benefitting off botters doesnât exist. If there was one where every gold piece was legitimately earnt instead of being paid for via RMT then it would atleast be tolerable.
Anyone who played through vanilla knows this to be true, or are being intentionally ignorant. Blizzard was known for smacking down such stretches of intended gameplay over itâs early history.
played in 2004 bro, still waiting on you to site sourcesâŚ
the supposed troll Ziryus has provided more proof than you haveâŚ
you are speculating based on how you want it to play out not providing any proof.
look ive been reading the forums for awhile and most of you all i have no issues with but this is just seeming like you all are mad because people are playing in a way you dont like.