Some people in here need to chill. Botting is the real issue. Banning GDKPs isn’t going to solve anything.
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Except its simply wrong. Inflation affects everyone.
Could be a nice system if there were no RMT gold farmers feeding players gold to inflate the values to insanity that further harm the economy.
Players dislike GDKP because of a few things.
- its not actually DKP at all, its purchasing things with Gold and nothing else so participation and dedication are 100% meaningless. The name GDKP is a misnomer
- RMT farmers feed the GDKP teams gold, in turn destroying that servers economy further enriching the RMT companies who then gain control over the economy, and it can be very hard to fight against that kind of in game wealth.
- GDKP groups promise a lot, but really only deliver loot to whom ever paid the most RL money to buy gold to feed the Gold DKP group.
It seems someone thinks that an opinion other than their own is irrelevant and deserves vague response.
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bro botting is bad i know that, but that is not even the only factor to inflation.
gdkp does not cause inflation as it is trading already generated gold from one player to another.
boosting does not cause inflation as it is trading already generated gold from one player to another.
you know what has more of an effect on inflation? you questing and vending stuff to npcs while killing mobs that drops raw gold.
yes bots generate gold to sell for real money, but you the average player are just as at fault for generating raw gold as the bots.
This is holier-than-thou nonsense based upon your personal perception of what is and isn’t intended. I really would be curious to see you approach a game like Monster Hunter where there are loads of ways to manipulate the monster to tear it down in short order. I wonder if you would consider it a violation of the “intended design” when someone tanks up like crazy on a Heavy Bow Gun and just weathers everything the monster tosses at them and never dodges anything?
WoW handed us a ton of tools to go out and interact in the world using them. Do you think it is merely clever use of game mechanics or a violation of “intended design” when the following happens:
- A Druid stealths to Mother Smoulderweb in LBRS and proceeds to Starfire/Hiberate spam it to death in order to snag Wildheart Boots.
- A Mage at lvl22 has 3/3 Improved Blizzard and rounds up Gnolls in Redridge Mountains, often as many as 6-10 at a time, and Blizzard spams them to death.
- A Hunter uses a combination of Feign Death, Engineering, good pet control, and a lot of running around kiting up and down a platform to solo Dire Maul Tribute.
- A host of classes are able to use Alchemy consumables and terrain manipulation to gain access to the end of Dire Maul East, get into the tunnel behind Alzzin, and snag several Rich Thorium Veins.
- A raid full of Engineers make use of Goblin Sapper Charges to trivialize Viscidus.
- A raid full of Engineers make use of Major Recombulators to ease the burden on Loatheb.
- A raid kills Ragnaros before he can submerge and summon Sons.
- A raid kills Gluth before he can cast Decimate.
- A raid kills Heigan before the fast dance, allowing those in the hallway to just stay put the entire time.
- Etc.
This doesn’t characterize my position at all. I said it plainly that I’m a positivist with regards to the law, not morality itself. I’m a moral objectivist (that is moral are knowable, true, and universal), but there is a non-trivial interface between natural law (morality) and civil law (rules and regs for everyday things and behavior).
It isn’t a matter of morality, necessarily anyway, whether or not a government chooses to add taxes to soda or not.
It is a matter of morality whether or not deceit is harmful, and it is in case you’re wondering.
Positive law produces two outcomes, the one of which you’ve mentioned:
- Laws and regulations are essentially guardrails, stay within the guardrails and you’re not running afoul of anything
- Lawmakers have a duty to construct laws to create sufficient guardrails so as to not allow by legislative blessing things we don’t want in society
This is why I had mentioned earlier that I am 100% satisfied with rules and laws that clamp down on tobacco industries that necessitate warning labels, liability taxes, etc. A libertarian would be aghast because you’re invading the free market with intrusive government regulation, people are smart enough to know not to smoke, keep the government out of it. A positivist may or may not want intervention, depending on what motivates the positivist’s morality (tobacco is super harmful and addictive, warnings and limitations are fine to me). But if we don’t have direct insight into the mind of the lawmaker, then we can only infer the intent based upon the guardrails provided. A ruler that doesn’t restrict alcohol in any way, shape, form, or fashion likely has no opinion (at least no negative opinion) about the consumption of said alcohol, thus that ruler deems it permissible, even encouraged.
You’ve claimed that the intended design is obvious, and while I agree I also know that what that design is wouldn’t be the same answer from both of us. I view the rules and structure of the game as guardrails, and we the players are free to explore that space to our hearts’ content. I know that the Devs encouraged creative solutions combined with coordinated group activity, and wanted to foster spontaneous needs for both whenever they could. A walk through the history of the various zone-based PvP objectives in an attempt to recreate some of the PvP battles of old Vanilla is more than sufficient evidence of that.
But when we’re talking about grouping schemes, guild structure, loot distribution systems, etc, the history of WoW and the Devs’ own comments show a commitment to largely letting us do as we please. Have a guild leader that just pilfers all the loot every run and you must suck up to him to get anything? Well as detestable as I find that kind of stupidity, I find it more stupid that anyone would stay in that environment when they aren’t forced to do so. And nothing was really done in all the history of WoW about that kind of mini-Napoleon complex except for the Personal Loot change of recent years… which I’m not really sure what problem they were actually truly aiming to solve with that.
My point is that Boosting itself would have never gone against what Blizzard built rules around concerning player-player interactions. Folks charging services for gear, farming, experience, etc, were all contemplated and accepted things. So Boosting itself would have continued regardless because Blizzard explicitly made super-wide spaces with minimal regulation for such things to grow (or in your mind, fester).
Pulling the entire instance on the other hand would likely have seen some tweaks. We saw Classic Devs change the Mara mobs from dropping Solid Stone in response to people mass farming them via endless spawn from a boss that could be reset. Chances are we would have seen nerfs to loot and gold from ZF GY farming as well, and some stricter leashing rules in Mara, BRD, and a few others. Leashing isn’t trivial and itself can be abused for other purposes so that has to be weighed. But otherwise Boosting would have been perfectly valid 15yrs ago under the original Devs.
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I agree. Botting is the real problem, here.
Every Server is different, ofc. The value of Black Lotus varies from Server to Server (Faction to Faction, as well). I can only speak about Pagle and Bloodsail (Alliance). Last I checked, the value of Black Lotus, on Pagle, is at least 100g. Meanwhile, on Bloodsail, they’re half that price.
I, also, think that it depends on the item, as well. I’ve mentioned this, several times, that I don’t understand why Dreamfoil is “elusive” to some (not all). For me, Dreamfoils are everywhere because of that, I use them as a form of a secondary currency. I trade in my Dreamfoils for other flowers such as Plaguebloom or Gromsblood. I’ll admit, Plaguebloom is tricky to find.
I supply myself with my own materials. I’m not going to buy mats that I can get, myself. I did that, recently. Dream Dust is a little bit more valuable than Illusion Dust. I farmed both Mara and ST for Greens 'cause Dream Dust comes from Greens that are levels 45 - 55. The people I recruited were very nice about handing over said Greens, to my Enchanter.
It’s the same thing with Mageweave, surprisingly. Those can surpass Runecloth, in value, too. Even though, Mageweave can be easily found in ZF. Supply and demand.
lol ok bud. Like many guilds with the holidays, we struggled to maintain a full 40 roster for Naxx. we are 13/15 and people are all coming back from the holidays. What does my progression in Naxx have anything to do with GDKP being a valid way to do loot? We don’t do GDKP in our guild Naxx, but all the other raids we do GDKP.
When you do GDKP enough, you get a lot of gold over time. And no, I haven’t once bought gold, and everyone that I associate with have never once bought gold. But nice try kid.
Kid doesn’t even post on his main, and you think we should take this guy seriously? lol
i would prefer if people weren’t blatantly buying gold
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A. You have no idea if someone farmed the gold legitimately or not. Have you ever heard of Mara / ZG / Stratholme Mage boosting? Yeah, so your point about RMT is invalid.
B. GDKP is simple, whoever bids the highest for the item wins. Its that simple.
C. Most GDKP groups require a minimum performance threshold in order to get paid. So in my experience, the GDKPs that i’ve been in have all been much smoother, with less wipes than Soft Res / Token runs.
D. You have literally 0 proof, 0, of people buying gold. 0. You come in here with a lot of unfounded claims with no proof to back up your claims. Please take your garbage elsewhere.
Any sort of proof to your claims?
Aka, who’s selling, who bought? etc?
No? Thought so.
raidlogger dad with a full time job dropping 30k on a death’s sting seems suspect to me
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seems suspect, but not proof.
Has it ever occurred to you that he might have an alt(s) that he farms gold on? Or he goes to other GDKPs and earns gold that way?
Again, please stop posting your “hunches” and “suspicions” when you have 0 proof.
you should open up the LFG channel sometime and count how many people are constantly selling boosts, summons, and tribute buffs. now go out into the world and see how many bots you can find. now /who high level dungeons and see how many mages named Asdfsdfs you can find.
all of these people are real money traders. somebody is buying the gold, and that gold is most likely to be used in GDKP, consumables are expensive, but not that expensive.
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The problem with relying on Blizzard to “create sufficient guardrails” is that the original developers are no longer around to do that. And current Blizzard does almost nothing in that regard. They didn’t want Classic and they don’t care, IMO. It’s just a cash grab. Which is why exploit abuse in Classic is so rampant. It’s the Wild Wild West.
I disagree with this. People can logically form opinions about what 2005-2006 Blizzard would have done. For example, I can say with 99.9% certainty that the one-pull mage boosts would have been nuked from orbit. And they probably would have taken additional measures to discourage boosting and encourage normal leveling through quests and running dungeons with appropriate level players. I think they would have been absolutely appalled at the current paid boosting meta had it become the norm back then.
Again, we just view things differently here. If you find someone’s wallet lying on the ground in a public place, with $500 cash in it, there is no “guard rail” stopping you from taking the $500 for yourself and throwing the wallet in the trash rather than taking it to Lost & Found. But what’s the right thing to do?
Similarly, there are tons of obvious exploits in this game, and I think people can decide for themselves what crosses the line and choose not to participate in those activities. And they can also frown upon others who do participate. There is no “guard rail” stopping me from abstaining and frowning.
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The part they do not understand is that the items that are at bargain basement prices now are worthless for players to farm to gain money from their sale. Really the only way to keep up with the RMT players and those who are getting that RMT gold secondhand via GDKP runs, is to join the bad actors. There is virtually no way to otherwise keep up unless you are willing to level up a mage and spend your playtime existing in mid level dungeons cheese-farming.
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What you don’t understand is that A) economies change over time, expecting static prices on things was always silly B) inflation also happens over time because gasp WoW is not a zero sum gold system, it actually has very few real gold sinks.
And trying to blame a perfectly legitimate play style for botting is ridiculous.
Oh? Hmm…
Yo.
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Yeah, the primary problem is definitely bots, not gdkps themselves. The prevalence and bid size of gdkps stem from that initial issue
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OP is a troll in trade and world chat on the server. Just dont bother.