Given the lengths some people have gone to in both Classic and retail Id say you’d have to be nuts to think gold buying isnt a huge part of the landscape.
A guy on my realm who runs gdkps horde side says that his runs have gotten a little more difficult in AQ because of the amount of people showing up with empty slots and in SM gear. He doesnt set any kind of requirement because the guys doing the carry like the amount of gold they throw around when there is more competition for drops and none of them care where the gold comes from. The buyers arent exactly discreet about it either which is probably why there are calls to do something about GDKP.
again im not saying gold buying isnt happening, but the extent can not be proven without absolute data showing otherwise.
do i think alot of people buy gold, yeah of course. ive seen former guildies especially back in the old days admit to it. i knew gold farmers back in tbc and wrath that i went to college with. reported them all every time i could. did it change anything nope, they went back to it each and every time. eventually i stopped being in said guild and stopped hanging out with those guys in college.
you are not going to stop them or their buyers simply by banning gdkp, even if you could, because people buy gold for the dumbest of reasons. some people just want a bigger number in their gold box.
That’s the thing. A lot of the buyers aren’t discrete. That’s why I find it crazy that there are people saying GDKP RMT is not happening. Are people who admit to buying gold lying about doing so?
There may be some legit runs out there. I can especially see it for the 20 mans, but when you’ve got people in the runs admitting to buying gold there is no denying it.
Yes, there are people on these forums who deny that RMT is any part of GDKPs. That’s the strange part.
I don’t think people who participate in GDKPs are “monsters”. It’s very common to participate in them. RMT is everywhere in this game because there is next to no enforcement. IMO there is just a difference between knowingly taking gold from someone who flat out says they buy it vs getting it through the AH unknowningly.
I’ve expressed my opinions on GDKP but I try not to most of the time. It’s not just about the RMT for me but other things that I’m not spending posts talking about again. I know so many people who love the things and so I only really express my opinions on the forums on occasion and just don’t participate in the raids.
“Hello Ladies and Gentleman, Willie here, ready to make another $5,000 by parroting whatever opinion is currently trending on reddit, here with another episode of “what’s wrong with classic” ready to blow things about of proportion”
Do you think people know about these “problems” before they visit Reddit/Youtube?
I doubt it, if you never visited Reddit or YouTube you would be blissfully unaware these “problems” even exist.
Outrage sells, the latest drama sells, using a one off example and using that to paint the entire classic community as gold buyers with 200k gold is just despicable.
I honestly believe the majority of people on reddit/youtube aren’t even classic players, they’re just drama andy’s actively looking for flaws/problems or any excuse to complain about the game and make it look bad.
For whatever reason, classic triggers alot of people, so many people WANT to see it fail it’s rediculous.
To me this kind of thing only happens when an activity has become so prolific there is basically no fear of reprisal. “What is Blizz gonna do? Ban everyone?” Kind of like back in MoP when everyone was running scripts and the justification was they had to for the purpose of competing because everyone else was doing it. If you cant beat em, join em.
It was particularly bad in rated bgs and people talked openly on Blizz’s forums about using them for the reason outlined above. And of course, you had people coming to the forums to tell people how it was possible to react like you were running a script without using one.
Its true that willie has a potential motive to mislead people but whether he is actually doing it is another matter entirely. Id say anyone that has watched his content would have to conclude that he’s actually an upstanding guy.
The guy who bought the sword explicitly said he “runs a lot of DME”. So unless the guy was lying, Willie is correct to assume he did DME runs because…that’s exactly what he said he did.
Willie assumes an average of 8 taps per DME run, which is statistically correct. Knowing the drop rate of 3% per tap, Willie correctly assumes 1 AC per 4 DME runs. Again, statistically correct.
Willie assumes 12 minutes per DME run, which is the absolute fastest possible without capping instances. This assumption is correct.
Willie assumes an AH value of ~60g per AC. Over time this has obviously fluctuated, but the average value of every AC the guy has sold can be reasonably assumed to be around 60g. This is a perfectly reasonable assumption.
Given these assumptions, a bit of 5th grade math does in fact reveal that in order to make that much gold, you have to spend ~67 days /played in DME. And mind you, this is assuming you never spend gold on raiding, repairs, consumes, mounts, alts, or any other items in a GDKP run. This is just how much time it takes to pay for the sword and nothing else. So you’re actually looking at many more DME runs over the course of this player’s history to afford raiding and everything else we all spend gold on in our daily WoW lives.
Now, if you wanted to make a legitimate argument against Willie, you might point out that 67 days /played, while a lot, is not that absurd. I myself have 93 days /played at 60 on my main and I have a job and family. I could personally never imagine spending 2/3 of all that time doing a single activity, but different players enjoy different ways of playing. That said, it is still unlikely that this guy earned all his gold legitimately. Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely? No. A bit of Occam’s Razor tells us it is far more likely this player used the much simpler method of buying at least a portion of that gold.
And I guess nobody is asking themselves how the bid ended up that high in the first place? Obviously because there was at least one other person in that run with nearly as much gold as the guy who won. You can argue that it’s technically possible they both earned it through thousands and thousands of DME run, but technically possible =/= likely happened, and Occam’s Razor tells us the simplest explanation is most likely the right one. And it is much simpler to buy the gold than to spend literal months farming DME.
Lets be real, the chances he farmed his money in any conventional way like herbing or whatever is incredibly unlikely, mathematically its possible but I’d question the motivation of people who want to do that many jump runs and I don’t think even if they did do it that they’d spend that gold all on 1 item, clearly he has more than 198k aswell
There is a real denial going on, there are hundreds of bots active all day long doing everything on every server, there is a demand for mass amounts of raw gold which doesn’t make sense for people buying so they can afford to consume, its clearly gdkp related
Dont bother. You’ll just invite more people who will use their own assumed numbers and personal experience (just like willie) did to show it can be done without buying gold and they’ll do it without a single hint of irony.
The issue with willie isn’t that he’s wrong about gold buying, yes it happens and yes it is used in GDKP runs.
The issue is he made it click bait by trying to claim that that all GDKP runs are just gold buying runs instead of acknowledging that this was just an exception and not the norm.
How does doing GDKP = buying gold? The only way I was able to get an idol from ZG is by legitimately saving up gold after losing 16 rolls in a row in SR runs
Yea yea yea…it is intolerable when youtubers and forum anarchists assault the integrity of the proud GDKP tradition by pointing out there’s a whole lot of negative things you can say about it.
I’m merely pointing out he’s not the objective investigative journalist you seem to think he is. He wanted clicks on his video and made it click bait to get them.
The implication being the people ridiculing him are being objective? They have no personal stakes in GDKP or agendas of their own?
Well, golly, Im glad we have these gate keepers on watch at the barricades to set us straight on the matter.
Willie is as level as they come. Again, you probably need to be familiar with his content to get this. He didnt make any accusations or go on a rant that gdkp needed to be eliminated or else.
Did willie’s math checkout? Are his intentions pure? At some point the minutia overshadows the elephant in the room.
Of course that’s not all he did. He obviously bought gold as well. That’s literally the entire point of this discussion and his video. Nobody is earning that much gold through DME runs. Very likely, there’s nobody earning that much gold through any legitimate means.
The irony of these two quotes. You’re calling out Willie for his incredulity while simultaneously being incredulous at the idea that this player did what they said they did. Then again, if you’d watched the video you’d know the player said DME runs only accounted for 60% of the gold they spent, or about 118.8k. It was this number that Willie did all his calcs on. So are you saying this player is a liar and didn’t earn the 118.8k through DME runs despite them claiming exactly that?
No what he did was provide an extreme example of a rare event giving no context to show that it was an exception rather than a rule. And as evidenced a lot of people failed to understand that.
This is the absurd conclusion I’m talking about. It requires that you think that he must be lying about not gold buying by treating his claim as literal and all encompassing of his activities despite there being a significant gulf of possibilities between these two idiotic extremes.
I know… WillE had his conclusion first and simply aimed in that direction without actually supporting it, hence the criticism.
This is false, and abundantly so at that. The gold you can earn boosting people in ZG is ludicrous.
Again, if you’d watched the video, you’d know we’re not talking about the entire 198k gold that he spent on the sword. We’re talking about the 118.8k gold that the player explicitly stated was earned through DME runs. That’s the number all of Willie’s calcs were done on, the number that the player specifically said was earned through DME runs. Are you saying you don’t believe them?