GDKP is just money laundering but in a video game

[Crudlord-tichondrius]

They support bots

Bots sub to the game.

[Jeddite-grobbulus]

@Ikanaide-grobbulus

As an aside, the funniest thing about the vanilla pvp system is how nobody at blizzard saw the PvP system’s issues, or atleast didn’t care, until Onslaught used bots to pad their servers PvP brackets to make it possible for more of their raiders to fit into the top bracket lmao.

I think I vaguely remember this from scuttlebutt on the forums way back then.
Do you remember if Blizzard did anything to sanction these Onslaught players? Im curious if the punishment was harsher back in 2005-06 than anything Blizzard does now (I would guess yes but perhaps not).

[Ikanaide-grobbulus]

The Onslaught exploit was during 2020. Players realized the rank system was scaled based on # of total players in the system (any player with 15 or more hks that week) and were using level 10 or 15 characters (whatever the minimum is to be worth honor in the first place) to be killed by armies of level 1 characters to fill the system with extra characters. Rough math example: If you have 300 pvper’s on your faction (again, anyone with 15 hks that week) you have 1 bracket one slot (the bracket required to reach rank 14). If you add another 100 “pvper’s” you get an extra bracket one slot, so now 2 people can reach rank 14 each week.

I would say old Blizzard (pre-Activision) was much harsher on their punishments. Even when the mistake was partially their fault, they were much more perma-ban happy.

[Corpseknife-mankrik]

@Ikanaide-grobbulus

I think the fundamental difference between our positions is that I blame blizzard for not enforcing their ToS properly (again, 2 week suspension for buying gold and inconsistently removing items/gold from the cheaters). Whereas you, somewhat, lay the blame on people for cheating in the first place.

That’s true but I don’t hold Blizzard blameless. I find their system to barest of minimums and I think their punishments are too light. I do put more emphasis on players because ultimately its on them but Blizz doesn’t go as hard as they should either.

@Ikanaide-grobbulus

But it’s actually blizzard’s fault that they won’t police their game that it’s gotten this bad in the first place. The rampant botting that they somehow can’t catch despite only needing a 3 second eye test to ban probably 90% of the bots is proof enough of that. If they got rid of the majority of bots the value of RMT gold would be higher (harder to get large quantities of it), which would drive a lot of rmt’ers out of the practice simply by costs.

I dont disagree.

@Ikanaide-grobbulus

Nobody wants to spend thousands of IRL cash on a few thousand in game gold. But when 20 dollars covers your in game expenses for a few months well… people take the easy way. Even better for cheaters when the punishment for getting caught cheating is a 2 week break from the game at worst.

Youre not wrong.

[Ikanaide-grobbulus]

Yeah I’m not trying to say you don’t blame Blizz as well. And I’m certainly not trying to give cheaters a free pass.

Just ultimately it’s gotten this bad due to lack of enforcement in general, that now their “solution” is a bandaid to the real issue to generate some community good will for a little while.

Honestly I wonder if part of the issue even stems from the original inclusion of the wow token. Players got used to simply doing it legally. I wonder how many just do it on classic because they cba to play without it anymore.

[Corpseknife-mankrik]

@Ikanaide-grobbulus

As an aside, the funniest thing about the vanilla pvp system is how nobody at blizzard saw the PvP system’s issues, or atleast didn’t care, until Onslaught used bots to pad their servers PvP brackets to make it possible for more of their raiders to fit into the top bracket lmao.

I used to kill the gnomes in durotar after they flew over and actually got threatened by the owners lol. Dox’d, DDOS’d and even worse than that hahaha.

[Zaalg-ashkandi]

But here’s the thing: RMT isn’t going away. And Blizz has demonstrated they’re not serious about addressing the issue. So it seems to me, “This system could work without RMT” is a moot point. And one I disagree with anyway, since GDKPs requires RMT.

[Bythesword-sargeras]

I’ve never heard it called the Onslaught exploit. It was just called pool party on my server.

[Ikanaide-grobbulus]

Yeah it was the pool party until Onslaught did it using bots to both automate and accelerate the process lmao

Skeram was a pretty dead server, Onslaught choked out most guilds so they needed to do a lot of bracket inflating

[Bythesword-sargeras]

I know at least 2 people that ran dozens of bot accounts that did the same thing simply because they wanted to inflate the b1 slots
I honestly thought it was common place back then

[Ikanaide-grobbulus]

Oh for sure, I’m not saying it was isolated, but the scale they did it in was insane. I think they had 50 or more BR1 slots.

[Crudlord-tichondrius]

These guys were dedicated and deserved it.

[Bythesword-sargeras]

I can’t remember how many slots were in first generation on Faerlina but being the streamer server it was a lot, I didn’t really rank back then because I had to go outside and touch grass every now and then + played a priest and didn’t care

[Jeddite-grobbulus]

Okay, I remember the inflating the PVP pools during Vanilla Classic. I interpreted your comment to be from waaaaaaaaay back in 2005-06 (when such knowledge would be far more limited in scope).

[Ikanaide-grobbulus]

A lot probably. But it depends, I can’t find the number for scaling it upwards but you needed 250 players in the system for ONE bracket 1 spot. And I think most servers averaged 3-5 slots. It might even be as simple as every 250 players generates 1 additional spot.

[Corpseknife-mankrik]

@Zaalg-ashkandi

RMT isn’t going away. And Blizz has demonstrated they’re not serious about addressing the issue.

Sad but true.

@Zaalg-ashkandi

“This system could work without RMT” is a moot point.

You’re right but I genuinely feel bad for honest folk who get collectively punished because of all the bad apples.

@Zaalg-ashkandi

since GDKPs requires RMT.

Ive defended GDKPs on my Era cluster because I dont think RMT is as a big deal on a perma P6 server going on 6 years old. I know people who play fairly casually but have large sums of gold because they’ve had years to farm and/or save it.

I personally made a small killing selling some Black Lotus stacks I saved up when my cluster was 20 people after TBC and people started raiding Naxx again months and months later.

Also, while I have never done a GDKP, I did talk to a host once when I thought about it and they were very generous with their time in explaining things to me and very kind. A former guildie of mine used to do MC GDKPs and drops not related to Thunderfury were selling for like 50 to 100 gold a piece. Its not making anyone stupid rich or breaking anything.

Now, contrast that to Cata where you hear and see some pretty insane stuff (gold totals) where people openly admit to gold buying.

[Bythesword-sargeras]

We also had a fair share of PvP sweaties, VC in particular
Think reign came over after p2 though so they probably ranked on skeram

[Ikanaide-grobbulus]

@Corpseknife-mankrik

Now, contrast that to Cata where you hear and see some pretty insane stuff (gold totals) where people openly admit to gold buying.

The biggest difference on cata is gold buying is essentially legal there now with the wow token. Any insane pot sizes are possible “legal” rmt (god it’s weird to call rmt legal), illicit rmt, or just someone who gdkp’s loads.

The token has been in play since what, ToGC?

[Ikanaide-grobbulus]

Oh how I do not miss fighting VC premades as a solo queuing warrior. I screenshotted every single killing blow I got on VC players

[Corpseknife-mankrik]

@Ikanaide-grobbulus

The biggest difference on cata is gold buying is essentially legal there now with the wow token

I know. But even when legal seeing people in bidding wars for pieces going as high as 170K + or more its hard not think P2W and its implications for everyone else.