It is not a “fact of the matter”…at all. Why, for instance, are gold buyers an issue? What problem do you have with them? That they could outbid you in a GDKP because they have more money? That they have higher quality of life in WoW, and can afford things other players may not be able to? Blizzard has already OKed this in retail by instating WoW tokens. You just have to buy your gold through them. So what’s wrong with gold buying then, taking that bought gold to GDKP? I’m trying to explain that there are gold buyers already all over the place, and that the token isn’t there yet. Nothing really wrong with the gold buyer in my eyes, other than the fact that they haven’t set a price for a WoW token yet. GDKP is just the same if not worse than gold buying, as I have said. Bought runs only stimulate the purchase of more gold…broadly. Like Chuck E. Cheese, you need those tokens to play. If I’m smart and lazy, which seems to be the WoW population predicament, I buy my gold and get into whatever runs I want whenever I track down a run. With the right amount of gold, I can even ditch the DPS minimum and AFK most of the raid. It isn’t the gold buyers…it IS the GDKP that is a glaring issue in the community and economy. Since you must have gold to play, and if gold buying were to be taken away (and it won’t be), there will always be a demand to gather GOLD for a GOLD DKP at the optimal level. Banning gold buyers would only lessen the amount of gold a botter has to farm. And if the bot were taken out, non-botters would have to find a way to maximize their income, because their loot as a GDKPer would depend on the amount of gold they have. The game would almost definitely skew even more in the direction of mages OP. Their total focus would be making money to competitively raid… So, there would be zero incentive to clearing raids outside of first time progression to establish farming with a select raid group. Without Lots of Gold, no one wants to throw around 100g for GDKP when they can just run together for free. WoW, what a world that would be. GDKPs rely on amounts of gold that cannot be attained in the natural Classic WoW environment. Eliminating GDKP altogether and making it punitive solves all these issues while reducing the RMT buyer and botting population. Sarcastic in the beginning a bit, but you get the idea. We can’t get rid of botters and buyers completely, but Blizzard would have a much easier time without Gold DKP runs. And without botters and buyers, the amount of gold fluctuating throughout the economy would diminish greatly and GDKP runs would be vastly less desirable. A lot of things in WoW (reagants, mounts, quest items) have a set cost, and players would actually have to pay for these things as intended. The cost of consumes, etc. has climbed on medium to highly populated servers because of GDKP. This is an easy fix. Get rid of GDKP. Let’s do it people.
Exactly! This game is an addictive thing. Even old-timers will drop big bucks…to mitigate playing the game. They just want to trick people into thinking they did. Which makes them liars on top of it all. GDKP. What a gaming environment!
Wow. Dude has 64 followers on YouTube and posted a 4 hour video? Yeah. I’ll spare him the dissertation. lol. I’m also a healer. IDK how this guy got his following at all. Won’t feed the troll.
The unfortunate thing about all of this is that GDKP is now a lifeline for a lot of guilds right now. Running Naxx every week can get expensive and affording everything one needs for raids every week can be quite the PITA.
The fact of the matter is, a lot of these guilds just don’t want to farm anymore and have taken the path of least resistance where they can spend 1-2 hours in MC or BWL and earn a paycheck that they can turn around and afford their consumables for the week.
This is why you still meet heavy resistance on these forums to anyone pointing out just how corrupt GDKP has become and how it has ruined every sever economy where it runs rampant. They still want their lifeline. They want access to easy cash.
And these people have the audacity to complain about bots.
Yeah. I know I am speaking to the choir in most cases. WoW IS pay-to-play across the board now. And you said it: guilds are reliant on GDKP for consumes. But the entire economy and time expenditures would be different minus the GDKP. You’d see people like me actually caring about mining, herbing etc. We still have people doing this, but most are bots. For instance, on my server, for whatever reason I have never seen a Black Lotus. And…a LOT of late night farming and moving all around EP and WS. People just want to GDKP, definitely. I’m just speaking out and agreeing with the OP. GDKP destroyed “Classic.” It AND the copious gold transfer have already murdered TBC. Done.
What blows my mind is how people want a “classic” experience with a retail environment. GDKP was not a thing when I played TBC. You were rich to have a fast flying mount during SSC / TK. All these “classical” experiences are cooked already. To the point I don’t think I’m going to be playing. This game is stupidly addicting. TBC is going to be a mess, but here I am…
Except this wouldn’t do anything to address botting or RMT.
What Blizzard needs to do is instate vending machines. Would save a lot of time organizing a raid around a player who doesn’t actually want to raid. It is already happening in a lot of Pay or Free to Play games. If they allow GDKP, why not just cut out the “middle-man” and get to the point. The price of consumes is high because of GDKP. After the AQ40 GDKPs I have done, everyone hits the AH after distribution hard. I’ve done GDKPs. I can just see on an ethical, economical and every other level…they are just no good. So I stopped. People could still afford consumes if they did a bit of farming every week. Use your professions, or run dungeons. Scholo is a winner. That nets Dark Runes and more pretty quickly, and it is a legitimate way to play and even help level 57-59 make it to 60. The dungeon can be 3-4 manned now. No one plays the game anymore.
Yes it would. GDKP demands…gold. Taking that demand out of the picture abso-toot-alutely reduces the need for…gold! Mikey Makesalot who wants his Kiss of the Spider will go from needing those 50K coins to 5K (for consumes) if he doesn’t want to risk a ban. AND he’ll probably have to pull his weight. Tough world that encourages. Unless you can mention some other massive, gaping-wide gold sink, yeah… I’ve seen you in other threads. Not feeding the troll anymore.
I actually want the ability to score points for clearing raids or raid bosses as a guild. If you clear MC, BWL, or whatever a certain amount of times, you score in-game guild points and can use those points to buy an item that you need from a vendor.
Like, say you want Band of Accuria but it never drops for you or someone else always wins the roll. Well, if you’ve cleared MC enough times and saved up enough points, you would be given the opportunity to just buy Band of Accuria from a vendor.
You can add perimeters to this like making it so people have to earn a certain amount of guild reputation before they are eligible to earn these points, ensuring people don’t just guild hop to get what they want.
GDKP is hardly the only thing that gold is used for hence removing GDKP does not remove bots. Not sure why this confuses you.
one thing i am beganing to notice is my guild mates running gdkp and leaving the rest of the guild to fend for themselfs soon there may not be a need for guilds anymore well …not as much as before i am starting to agree more and more on retails personl loot system{not in classic obv} but i am starting to see more more why blizz made that descion despite the commity uproar and people still hate it and blizz sticks to their guns on this one …my point i think i see why now also agree if possablie REMOVE gdkp from the game please if you can stick your guns about personal loot you can do this lol
i think you mean “parameters”
Yeah, I’d love to hear more inside stories about stuff like that, but I guess since we can’t call people or guilds out on the forums, it makes that difficult to do.
Very cool idea! Honestly refreshing. You know what Blizzard should throw in: Their own version of World of Logs. Just like you said, a point score. That’s brilliant! You earn points as a guild by clearing bosses, while giving a slight in-game bonus to tanks and healers (say, 5% bonus points). You gain part of the score from the raid, and another score based on your performance at your item level. So, if you are showing up and pulling numbers, you are given a greater amount of points and trusted with the better gear. Instead of a master looter, or personal loot, you don’t even loot the item from the boss. It would be so much cooler to buy it from an allied NPC; an NPC who puts a bounty on bosses each week.
There’s a lot of movement room there. Who pulls an armory of gear out of a dead enemy? If it were a legendary, you could loot the quest item, but that quest would go through several NPCs anyway. You get points and hearth back to your faction’s NPCs at raid’s end. Each phase of raids, you still receive points to kill bosses, but the amount of last-phase points is greatly diminished. This is where bounties come in.
If you want an item, like Bindings, but you are over the Molten Core phase, you go to your leader and vote to have a bounty put on up to three last-phase bosses, allowing you to gain extra points for killing those in-demand bosses as a guild. Players struggling performance-wise could be substituted in to kill last-phase bosses with a bounty on them if the guild decided they wanted to. Bounties would be posted every week at reset.
If there is a desire for consumes, you would need to make gold. Gold would remain in the profession / AH sector, like it or not, separate from raids but also connected in that professions all serve a purpose. If you could perform the same score without consumes, you wouldn’t be judged for it by the system. You’d receive the same score so long as your guild was killing the bosses. However, if you underperform, and your raid wipes, the amount of points you receive may be greatly diminished based on the guild’s performance as a whole.
“But what if I don’t have time to…” That’s where Blizzard deviated. If you cannot play the game, or don’t have time to, don’t play the game. No one is forcing you, but there are options (I am not a fan of raid finder, either). If you couldn’t make regular raids, you could register with a guild as a stand-in (a Mercenary) at any time, and should they approve and have an availability during your constraints, you could be substituted and rewarded according to you and your guild’s performance. Pugs could organize and register a raid with a unique NPC for whatever raid they were headed to, automatically forming a temporary makeshift guild. As a guild, they’d score against any other guild based on boss kills. Their points are scored just as if they were a new guild, but in order to register, you would need to have at least, say, 2/3 of the maximum raid. The less people in the raid, the more points raid players would net, even in a pug. A pug could always choose to register as a permanent guild, but they would need 2/3s of the guild and to have raided with stated players at least once.
Say someone can’t make raid night in a registered guild but is a regular raider… Players in the guild would receive points in their absence based on their average “Blizz Score,” being down that person. Of course, the absent player would receive no points. However, they could opt to take a listed Mercenary, someone who can’t make regular raids but are available during a set time.
They would list themselves, and maybe even specific bosses they are interested in. That merc would make points based on you and your pug or temporary guild’s score, and could join either. With a good temporary guild, a merc could make a significant amount of points, and based on their personal score they could even opt to “guild-hop” based on availability as a full-time merc. But the guild would have to vote to recruit the merc. 2/3 vote or so would be required to hire a merc for a registered guild, and no votes for a pug. Even if you do have a low score, there are always pugs available and guilds to help you play better, merc or not!
Your “Blizz Score” could be based firstly on presence. Second would be your performance, raw numbers compiled based on per class, per role performance, but mainly based on your performance at your ilvl. The higher your ilvl, the higher your potential for scoring points. Performing highly at your ilvl increases your score the most. Deaths, including guild wipes, may be counted against you, although every week a guild could be given a free wipe on their first attempt on every boss. If you wipe more than say ten times on a single boss, no more points could be docketed against you. Other than the three prior-phase bosses, any registered guild could put a bounty on a progression boss for the week, causing them to mitigate any points docketed against players and the guild and instead increasing the “Blizz Score” attributed to players when that boss is killed. If your guild sets no bounty, clearing the raid offers a small increase in “Blizz Score.” Third, you would gain small margins or bursts of points on trash, depending on the difficulty of it, so you are never completely wasting time unless you have hit a wall.
Your registered guild has its unique “Blizz Score” based on progression. Certain faction NPCs would offer items based on how many times you killed that boss. You couldn’t, for instance, kill Nefarian just once and have Neltharion’s Tear available for purchase. However, while your guild progresses, you could opt to do your best, farm gold legitimately for consumes and items to improve your score, and save your “Blizz Score” points so that you didn’t have to bid against anyone at all. You kill a boss three times with a decent score, the item becomes available at the appropriate NPC and you purchase it from them. Certain items, such as quest and legendary items, may be looted from the corpses of bosses. This way, when you purchase an item, you earned it. Whether a merc or a dedicated raid runner, you killed enough bosses, cleared enough raids, and performed well enough numbers-wise to truly deserve the loot.
To keep dungeons relevant, and to promote the Merc role, there could be a completely unique “Blizz Dungeon Score.” The score is based on trash and bosses killed. Deaths are docketed against you. Unlike raids, killing a dungeon boss once is enough to unlock their loot table. However, it would take a few runs to have enough points for a single item, even if you had performed at peak performance. However, save enough points and you can buy the item you want from the desired dungeon.
The final bosses to each dungeon have an enhanced level of difficulty, with mechanics and attributes that are increased the first time you kill them for the week. You kill Gandling, he’s super easy. You get some points on the board. Next week, his abilities hit a bit harder, and his adds are a bit heavier. They drop rare items slightly better than the other dungeon bosses. You have one free attempt, but wipes and attempts after the first attempt are docketed against you. If you wipe too many times, you can move into negative “Blizz Dungeon Score” territory for the current dungeon. Should you progress and run out of dungeon points for the dungeon you are in, the faction dungeon NPC ports to you and teleports you to safety. The teleportation is free, but your repairs are not. Once you have failed in such a way in an end-game dungeon, it becomes locked for the week. You may still attempt other dungeons. It would be great to have at least two end-game dungeons introduced every phase. One 20-man, and one five man would be ideal I think, as with Zul Gurub and AQ20 being released in different phases. Mercs could be fitted into 20-man pugs or guild runs as normal.
Lastly, because the last boss of each dungeon increases in difficulty every time you kill them each week, your dungeon NPC could offer items on that boss’ loot “table” that scale with the number of consecutive times you’ve killed them, limited to an ilvl slightly beneath current patch raid items.
For anyone who read, had all kinds of time on my hands but thought it would be very, very cool to instill a points system to WoW and just playing with ideas. As far as the economy, I feel raiding and the economy should be as separate as possible. Points and gold should remain separate. I’d like to see a few other things tinkered with, but by goodness I’d love to see this.
GDKP is a true plague. I fantasize about a better gaming system. Personal loot would be an improvement, but man…Mobikon had me writing a novel on how excited I would be IF ONLY his system was put into play. With a few additions 
I really don’t understand why uproar hasn’t been raised about the fact Blizzard has literally allowed the game to be P2W by continuing to let people trade in game items/currencies for services. They’re very well aware of people buying gold and then using that gold for anything they want in the game, which players have been advertising in game since…forever now. I remember when P2W bs used to be the reason you avoided Asia based MMORPG’s, no idea why it became accepted among western gamers. It’s now at the point where you can literally officially buy gold thanks to the WoW token and Blizzard already knows where that gold goes to, it’s outright an endorsement of P2W options being avialable.
How many people here don’t mind continuing to pay for a sub, which many consider to be a premium to avoid the awful monetization tactics and other negatives that were associated with F2P or B2P games back in the day, without the additional fact this kind of monetization is considered an inferior practice nowadays?..well guess what, all those things you wanted to avoid are in this game, and we’re paying the premium to boot. I could go on a 4 hour rant about how gamrers have no standards anymore and the industry is a soulless corporate machine.
You’re indeed right, it’d just become an underground trade, but even those could be smashed, it’d just require extra effort on Blizzard’s end to put the effort into doing so and based on how they handle bots and hand out suspensions like a slap on the wrist for even the most serious offenses now I’d say we can’t expect that to ever happen. But if they at least banned people from trading in game currencies/items for in game services, it’d be a lot healthier for sure.
Or if blizzard is going to put extra effort into policing something they should put it into the real problem, bots, instead of trying to scape goat something that isn’t actually the problem.
Cant believe I took the time to read all of this nonsense lol.
GDKP isn’t even close to being worse than gold buying or botting. Its honestly impressive how naive you are. If gold buying and botting didn’t exist you would still have GDKP loot systems yes but all of the gold you would have would be obtained via legitimate means. Why should you care if someone spent two weeks farming herbs and ore to get some gold to possibly get some loot in a GDKP run? Do I have to get your permission what I use my gold on? The reason the loot system is so popular is because:
A. It incentivizes doing old raids for people who are already far beyond the loot it gives out which provides more groups for players characters who are just recently max level
B. Its the most fair system we have.
C. Everyone in the raid leaves with something, if not some gear you definitely leave with more gold than you came in with.
Guild raids and competitive raiding are still a thing. GDKP just happens to be the most popular pug raiding scene there is, for many reasons, none of which are bad for the game.