If you’re in a guild with people who you want to raid, your incentive is to run MC and get your friends and guildmembers geared. Even if you have everything you need, your incentive is to help the people who will help you. That’s how the game is supposed to be played. You’re part of a team.
GDKP, as was mentioned by someone else in this thread, is a system that rewards the individual and not the group. It’s a way for you and only you to reward yourself for paying for something you didn’t have.
But you didn’t really earn that loot. You didn’t really earn that gear. You never made guild contributions nor helped members of your guild in a grand process that led to your obtaining anything you got in a GDKP run. You paid someone else to do the heavy lifting for you.
Some people contribute the ingredients, the pan, the flour, the sugar, the milk, the eggs, the oven, and everything else required to make the best cake in the world. Eating the cake is their reward for working together to make that masterpiece.
What you’re suggesting is like going to the supermarket, buying a cake, and then saying, “This is my reward for the money I just spent on this cake.”
Kcd… Exactly right. I’m the worst perpetrator. This game can be an addiction and as much as I still am here I’ve been enjoying other games lately, mainly single player. WoW is, as you said, purely GDKP all over trade now. Not even a little. Most of the raid channel is GDKP promotion. Guilds don’t want to raid Naxx anymore. My guild said, “Well, we’ve had fun everyone… See you in TBC!” only to have officers continue to log on for GDKP. GDKP > Guild Runs. There is zero dedication, only thousands of gold from GDKP that matter. I try to speak out against GDKP, because it is not the bots, not the gold-buying… I believe GDKP is the most toxic thing going on right now, and it is everywhere and who you know. If you have the CASH, go on to a website and buy gold. Blizzard is demonstrating they don’t care. Then, go spend 100K on an item and tell everyone you farmed for it yourself, and despite those man hours you’re 100% willing to trade all of that time for a single piece of gear. It will go to people who continue screwing the economy on a scale that the gold sellers can’t even keep up!
Very well said. GDKP is a cancer. People blame bots and gold sellers. No. It is GDKP all over the place that is crushing the game. And it will continue to do so in TBC unless people decide to say that GDKP is a real problem. The truth is that it will continue. No loss though. I don’t count on “Classic” TBC to be classic at all. Not even close because of GDKP and GDKP “lords” who command them. Retail players have come in and introduced single player WoW. You are right on the money. But hey…no one cares. Pay to play!
Right. So GDKP is also its own problem, as toxic as gold buying or botting, and would still be there despite the other two… Because it is its own problem: buying raid items for gold, which would spawn botting and gold buying and whatever methods required to attain that gold as soon as they are removed. If you take the GDKP out, the other agents are greatly weakened. If you take botting and gold buying out, they naturally come back because people want to buy gold and raid items easy, and there is a sucker born every second and many people would gladly trade “warcraft gold” for cold hard cash. You can weaken gold buying, by eliminating GDKP. But if you take the botting and gold buying out, for instance, and leave the GDKP, people will naturally want to compete and use whatever methods–to include botting and gold buying–to do so. GDKP, I’d argue, might be even worse than either botting OR gold buying right now, due to these facts. It is like a tree. You could take away the branches, but they’d just regrow. Cut down this tree and you get less branches: the obvious botting and gold buying. The GDKP tree currently exists as a way to launder gold, because bots and gold buying currently do exist, which like I said make it potentially as bad or worse than the other two.
Pretty weak argument you just gave. If going by what you state then we should prolly get rid of the AH, professions, max level characters or any other thing in the game that could cause players to give consideration to buying gold. Its kind of a ridiculous stance.
If you got rid of GDKP, bots and gold buying would still be very much alive and well.
If you got rid of bots and gold buying, GDKP would still very much exist but the items rates would be reduced quite a bit.
Nothing needs to happen to GDKP. Bots and gold buying needs to be dealt with though and getting rid of GDKP does nothing to achieve that.
GDKP exists in the state that it does because bots and gold buying are rampant. One hand washes the other. Once you stop giving people the incentive to buy everything in the game, they’ll stop buying gold to make that happen.
No whataboutism about it, those are absolute facts.
For someone who has admitted they have very little/if any at all experience with GDKP you speak like you have a lot of knowledge about it. GDKP exists in the state that it does because its one of the most fair pug loot systems there is and literally everyone in the raid group atleast gets something out of it. Does bot and bought gold find its way into those raids? Yeah, no one is doubting that.
However, heres what it would look like if Blizzard tried to find a way to get rid of GDKP -
All raids would have to be personal loot with no items tradeable to other members of the raid team
No currency can be traded to other players while in an instance, outside of an instance or in the mail.
No item trades can be made to other players you were in a raid instance with
All instance items must be BoP
Thats what I can think of off the top of my head but there ya go, you just turned instances into personal loot, erased any transactional interaction with your fellow guildies, friends and players you instance with.
Heres the kicker though, you do all of that? Bots and gold buying would still exist. Atleast you got rid of GDKP though right?
Just because you use the word “facts” doesn’t make them so.
No, sorry, but you don’t hire thieves to catch other thieves. Sorry. I’ve been over this line of thought too many times. You’re being intellectually dishonest now. Gonna have to put you on ignore now. Thanks.
“Absolute facts.” Indeed, the one hand washes the other is the fact. Just ignore Owns. There are very few “facts” in the World of Warcraft. Most people play due to addiction, so they want that GDKP to minimize game hours, and most GDKP “pure buyers” pay with the mighty dollar. Every GDKP wants pure buyers. That’s pretty much the objective. We’re very close to a fact right there. Weak argument? That GDKP and bots and gold buying are in the same pipeline? That professions and just being max level aren’t? Give me a break!
Weak argument? That GDKP and bots and gold buying are in the same rotating pipeline? That professions and just being max level aren’t? Give me a break! The AH is just the first place hit after a GDKP run. You know what I’d like to see someone show? Numbers. Prove to me your facts. That farming solo or even duo, optimally say 3 in-game hours a day (reasonable) provides anywhere near a single AQ40 with a few pure buyers in one hour. Half my guild = “Well, it’s been fun this past YEAR. My work schedule has recently become an issue so I won’t be raiding. I’ll be back in TBC. See you there!” Later on: that half is online running GDKPs. Simple. GDKP > DKP, Soft res, whatever other mode. Prove to me that GDKPs aren’t more prolific now because people are literally getting away with murder, cranking WoW down to easy Pay-to-Play. GDKPers profit off of bought gold. I’ve tried to explain the obvious, but some people can’t be convinced of ANY “facts.”
Nobody has denied that botting and gold buying has been in some GDKPs. The fact of the matter is it isnt GDKP that is at fault, its the botters and the gold buyers.
If bots and gold buying did not exist, GDKP would. The items wouldnt be going for as high as some of them are but the GDKP system would absolutely still exist because there is nothing wrong with the system itself.
The market for the gold to enter GDKP is also ever-present. Go google RMT sites and you will see buyers can easily access any in-game item they want through gold from their websites. Although expensive, the demand for the gold is so huge sellers can’t keep up. In the beginning of WoW Classic, 100 gold was around 100 bucks. Now, you get 3K gold. Three fast mounts. And coming in at the beginning of Classic, getting my attunements, training all the way and finishing leveling to 60 was hard enough. 1K was not at all easy for me to come by. Now…its chump change. In this pay to play environment, RMTs are offering 20K gold or more at a time. It is INSANE to doubt that under-geared toons and alts are coming into GDKP raids, week by week, and just blowing 5K-10K gold just like that on a single item–without an army of farmers or RMT dough on hand to be spent. GDKP carriers get a good amount of gold week to week, but there are big dollar buyers all over the place now not being punished, buying from RMT sources, and who will spend as much as it takes to get what they want. GDKP doesn’t generate money in and of itself, as I have said. It is very toxic. It gets its money from farmers of nodes, herbs, alchemy, AH players…but en masse. Many botters, but since I can’t prove it, maybe some US/EU guilds are working together hours and hours a week (honestly) to get their GDKP gold or even filter all of their income into a guildie so they can afford to purchase a single item. Maybe. And the other side of the coin: the carriers. As long as they can carry, why spend the dough when you can sell it? For cash. You better believe it happens with players who have already planned on their TBC transfer. Find the right person and the right channel on Discord, and all that excess gold you aren’t taking to TBC…
“i mean im sure its a possibility that some players buy gold, but without any proof your point is anecdotal” = you in yet another response. “Without any proof” sounds a lot like “Prove to me…” You must be nuts.
That’s certainly a problem, but the root problem is the sheer number of people apparently willing to pay to NOT play a game they pay for. It’s strange.