You literally just shot down your argument how people buy gold to get the darkmoon cards, but you go king
Someone has to do it, and given its BIS as you stated, yes im paraphrasing “any real raider shows up geared for raid” . Then sounds like its your job to go out and farm all the required materials yourself or farm gold to pay someone else who did do the farming to give you the materials.
Sure, like no one “farms” mounts either. I’ve literally been in comms with guildies who sat there for 8 hours a day doing archeology, dungeons, mount farming, etc non-stop. Just because you don’t farm rare drop chance items till you get it doesn’t mean others arnt.
Blizzard themselves have stated GDKPs and people doing RMT are directly tied to one another, that it incentivizes RMT and botting. Like it or not, fact dont care if you agree or not.
Actually it does, Blizzard has stated directly that GDKPs incentivize botting and RMT. If botting is incentivized then more players will be willing to run bots, scale up those operations, etc to meet gold buying/selling demands. This gold never “leaves” the economy it just gets shifted around via the AH and GDKPs. As a result the total volume of liquid gold in the market continues to grow and thus the cost of goods also continue to grow to compensate. This is called inflation. Just because its an incame currency doesn’t mean its not subject to the same process. Weird you say its a widely prefered loot system considering Blizzard has also stated they have received primarily positive feedback about the SoD GDKP bans and as observed in these forums, social media, youtube videos and comments, etc most people seem to be for the bans aswell. Occams razor says yet again your wrong. Maybe in your world somehow blizzards wrong, all the online feedback in every medium is also wrong and your the only one thats right. But obviously thats not correct.
Blizzard themselves stated the two are directly tied together, so have gold buyers/sellers who were interviewed previously, so have other players. Occams Razor again would state your incorrect in your assertion that everyone but you is wrong.
Clearly you either don’t do your research on how in game economies work (both in WoW and outside of WoW), what blizzard has stated are the cause/effect of GDKPs and gold buying, etc or your willingly ignoring it to justify you being allowed to Launder RMT gold into your account. In either case until you actually do said research or accept that its problem no progress can be made in this discussion. As facts dont seem to matter to you, only the fact you want to run GDKPs matter.
How does this shoot down my argument and not shoot down yours? Oh, it does, because people have been swiping for the last 20 years, we know people have swiped for things as simple as epic riding. They have swiped because they don’t bother learning how to farm that much gph, or did try, and weren’t very good at it/didn’t enjoy knowing how many hours they would have to do it for. Please stop being braindead.
Yea, plenty of people also open wowhead, check their class bis list, check the ah, and swipe. They’ve done this for years. GDKP not required.
Literally find one person who specifically farms for BoE world drops. You won’t because you can’t. You know why? Because that’s not lucrative. IF they are farming in an area that can drop a very high value BoE (like Edgemasters or Teebu’s), it isn’t because they are farming that specific BoE, they are farming for raw gold or other sellables and it being a place that can drop such a rare BoE is just a bonus, because you’ll likely never see one even if you farmed for 20 years.
Blizzard also stated prot warriors in wrath couldn’t tank Anub’Arak adds in TOGC due to a “late wrath change” to how block was calculated. Which was a straight up lie for the record. Blizzard has no clue what they’re doing, nothing they say means anything, it’s all lip service. Same with the GDKP ban, it’s lip service to appease a bunch of morons who think it’ll remove all the RMT and botting in WoW that has always been there for its entire 20 year run regardless of GDKP.
You wanna know what banning GDKP actually did? Reduced the amount of gold trades. So, that stands to reason that with fewer gold trades they’d have an easier time catching RMT right? And yet, still rampant on SoD. Please, stop, being, stupid, think, for, your, self. I am begging you. The ban, accomplished, nothing.
Again, Blizzard stating anything means nothing without posting data to back it up. Botting being more incentivized by GDKP should mean nothing, because they should be better at banning the INCREDIBLY OBVIOUS bots in the first place. They aren’t doing anything to combat botting and RMT. It’s weird you keep bringing up market inflation when we have proof it isn’t happening and hasn’t happened in any version of wow in the last 5 years that HAD GDKP. You wanna know what caused market inflation in 2019? When bots had such an absolute stranglehold on the black lotus market that when blizzard increased the amount of spawns black lotus CRASHED from ~100g per lotus to less than 20 over night. As every botter and gold seller desperately tried to escape the market with their full expansions worth of lotus they’d already obtained by the time BWL was out and had been drip-feeding into the economy to drive up prices for profits. That blizzard wasn’t banning while they teleported around under the map.
Again, I am begging you, to stop being stupid. Read what has been typed and spoonfed to you. There is no inflation. There is as much RMT and botting as ever. The GDKP ban is worthless. They put a single plank over a broken window and now we have loud-mouths who live in fantasy land claiming they fixed the window and nobody will freeze to death now.
Because your entire argument was that darkmoon cards are “inflated” and costs 10,000+ gold to purchase on the AH and people still buy them anyways for pre-raid bis. So you following up with how “easy” it is to farm 10,000 gold in a set period of time doesn’t exactly help your argument that its possible RMT gold. Throwing out new reasons like epic riding and as a reason to RMT gold is also absurd given what you just stated.
The point is anyone can go and farm their BIS items themselves and it not cost them any gold to do so. If people decide to try and skip that process via outside of game RMT there isn’t much that can be done to detect and ban that. Blizzard can try and track the gold and ban those its “directly” tied to or go in and zero out the persons gold and delete the items they bought. But thats really all they can do.
I’ve personally joined multiple BOE farming raids and BOE world drop farms both in retail and classic where if it drops people roll on it as MS / OS. If no one rolls on it then the guild running the raid keeps it and posts it to the AH to pay for guild repairs, consumes, etc. Some of those runs a “specific” BOE might be HR’d but its normally only 1-2 items best case.
So your narrative is blizzard is wrong, every player who has observed this directly is wrong, every gold seller/buyer whos been interviewed about their “business” is wrong, every set of public research on every ingame economy industry wide is wrong and only you are right. Got it, I wish i had the confidence you have to completely ignore all sources of fact and to have a counter opinion.
Fewer gold trades == less gold velocity/demand == less incentive for botting and RMT activities. In order to fight the RMT and botting life cycle you have to attack it from multiple fronts(demand + supply) if you actually want to learn how game companies approach this issue, detect and then attempt to stop it maybe watch a youtube video like " EVE Online Fanfest 2009 - The Economy". Where they discuss how it all works. But you probably won’t watch this given youll make up some excuse why all ingame economy research in all games is a “lie/incorrect”.
Blizzard are who is in charge of the game, they are the game makers, they write the ToS and EULA. Them stating it as a fact when every other source of information people has also confirms this is a unified message. Regardless of them individually posting data or not. Secondly, the bot problem is because they first 9/10 of their GM, CS and Abuse teams to “save money”. Yes they need to fix that, no they probably wont. What blizzard should be doing is taking legal action against the botting sites, purchasing copies of each cheat and creating detections in Warden for them, etc. Implementing AI to detect behavioral patterns that match botting behavior, etc. Will they do that? Probably not because theyd have to invest and they can make more money off new mounts, new expansions, etc. Whereas fighting RMT and botting has no “direct” financial benefit. In fact they lose money by fighting it effectively because the bot players have to buy WoW subs too at the end of the day.
Somehow being stupid is apparently researching the economics of in game economies, listening to the company that has all the data at their disposal to backup the claims that RMT and GDKPs are directly tied together as a supply/demand partnership, and listening to interviews from those actively selling and buying gold in WoW aswell as other games. Yeah totally makes sense researching facts and using them as a basis for my opinion is “being stupid”.
Where did i ever claim it “fixes” all of RMT I said it helps fight it. Theres still multiple avenues of attack they need to follow through with aswell (but probably wont) to actually have a real impact on things.
It was double that, then blizzard increased the spawn rate which effectively made it so the supply of rare consumable matts needed for that was much more available. Thus, the prices started dropping. This one but not the only change theyve made to potion/flask related ingredients that changed the prices of consumables as a result.
Translation: a corrupt loot council got pissed that someone not in their clique was getting geared so they pissed & moaned to blizzard until the offending loot distribution system got banned…
My server has to have MILLIONS in circulation, yet consumes are 4g and 7-8g/ea.
If the amount of gold in circulation directly effects pricing why arent consumes 1000s of gold ea?
Gdkp payouts are over 30,000 gold, yet you can do that raid easily with 400g worth of consumes, why isnt it 10x that price because of the amount of gold on the server??
Oh thats easy it’s because of cauldrons. There is a huge cut on the demand side for individual flasks because most guilds use cauldrons instead because its cheaper in the end and they last 2 hours.
But they should be far more expensive for a flask since like you said the amount of gold on the server.
Im on Benediction.
The server has been around since classic launched in 2019 and its had gdkps on it this whole time.
So once again putting what you said into practice consumes should automatically be much higher in price, yet they are 4g/ea for Volcanic Potions and 7-8g/ea for a flask.
Maybe what youre saying is actually wrong and you dont understand how it works?
Maybe buying a Sword in a gdkp doesnt increase the demand or lower the supply of anything on the AH so the prices arent affected?
Incorrect, if something isn’t selling on the market and is already low cost as is the best solution especially when theres a flood of available resources is to reduce the price. You make less per item selling it but if you sell a larger volume as a result of the reduced price it ends up being around the same profit. If the consumables are cheap people will use them in non-raid environments (inferno dungeons, pvp, open world/world bosses, etc) more often as it doesn’t really hurt you to do so if things are cheap.
You said more gold on server equals higher prices (inflation).
Prices are cheap because supply meets demand, but that still should mean the average price of an item reflects the raised prices of inflation, it isnt tho.
Benediction has millions and millions of “liquid gold” in the market, yet prices didnt grow. The exact opposite of what you said.
What? Proofread your comment. Lots of errors. Yes, I know what inflation is. Yes, I know that vendor prices and quest rewards are static. Confusing response, as if you replied to the wrong person.
I’m only pointing out the error in your reasoning. Your hypothetical of “300g vs 3,000,000g” is ridiculous. Do you really think that is an accurate representation? We can only speculate, but this is really bad speculation on your part.
You use an extreme outlier (3,000,000g), treat it as the norm, and then can’t even conceive of what a person would possibly RMT for beyond covering the cost of weekly raid mats, and decide on a figure of 300g as comparison.
So if he bought that 3million gold, what happened to it when he spent it on the ring?
Would this incentivize those others raiders to RMT or would it do the opposite considering they’re getting heavy payouts? Couldn’t they do this every week?
How is their approach to milking this cow for gold compared to someone selling high end consumables/boes/materials to players who don’t like to grind/farm?
P.S. If you had actually ever experienced a GDKP, you would understand the biggest whales in them are the AH players. But this is something your “friends chat” probably never wrote in your story.
@Bullakae its obvious the gold was split between the raid. In the youtube video I previously mentioned you can see the split the youtuber got was almost 200,000 gold off the run because the total pot was over 4 million gold.
It incentivizes raiders who are entering the GDKP only to come in and grab gear and leave to RMT. However, those who routinely weekly are running GDKPs for gold profit have no need to RMT because the whales they invite do the RMT for them and the gold is split between them when they buy items. However, there is many first hand accounts (again read the forums, social media, youtube comments, watch investigative journalism videos, etc) that after a certain wealth especially the raid leads start selling gold on these RMT websites.
GDKPs differ from AH primarily because of 2 reasons.
Almost everything that drops in heroic/mythic is the BIS items for the entire phase. This encompasses almost ALL of the gear slots (but not all) for each class and spec. As a result a whale can swipe their credit card, join a GDKP and get multiple BIS BoP items with little to no social/gameplay/etc investment.
That gold is then split between all the raiders, those raiders then are holding onto gold that has a high likelihood of originating from RMT sources.
Considering blizzard (as previously linked), investigative journalism (watch the MetaGoblin research on youtube in the video “WoW Gold Seller Reveals Just How Bad the Situation is…”), players first hand experiences(read the forums, youtube comments, social media), etc all directly link GDKPs together with RMT as a supply/demand vicious cycle yeah its not just my first hand experience.
No consumable prices are cheap because supply on consumables are way outpacing demand given the introduction of cauldrons. As a result prices get driven down to a point where people are willing to use them for throw away stat bonuses during routing non-raid content.
Secondly, consumables themselves are a bad example anyways because if the price gets too high players riot and blizzard just increases the spawn rates of the ingredients and bam the price craters. (See previously mentioned changes).
Prices on mounts, pets, etc are where things inflate the worst because they have limited drop rates and thus have a limited supply that can’t effectively be upscaled to reduce prices. These items players don’t get nearly as upset about with blizzard because they can farm these items themselves, and they have no impact on raiding or PvP combat. Since they are purely cosmetic there isn’t nearly as much anger over inflated prices.
If you’ve seen the price of BOEs when they first enter the AH or even the first few days they are absolutely insane. In retail heroic and mythic BOEs were going for 1m-2m gold each. In cataclysm BOEs when initially entering the AH are anywhere from 100k-200k gold. Yes, people are buying them at these prices you can watch the AH and see this. After a few days they are in the 10,000-30,000 gold range and after a few weeks they are in the 5,000-15,000 gold range.
You can’t convince me that blizzard is wrong, investigative journalists are wrong, all the first hand accounts of players are wrong and all public research on ingame economies in general are wrong and you’re right. Hell, even those defending GDKPs in this thread are stating that people just shift to sending money via Paypal instead for the GDKPs. But remember guys GDKPs and RMT aren’t connected. Not at all, everyone and everything is lying about them.
its banned because the devs are completely incompetent and have no intention of banning bots or banning gold buyers/sellers. They ban gdkp because this is the easiest fix and laziest.
Just because they didn’t list the data doesn’t “prove” them wrong. All it says is they didn’t decide to publish the data behind their statement. I would love if they were transparent like other games like Eve Online and showed and gave access to the hard data for detailed external analysis. In that game the company literally releases detailed monthly economic reports, gives talks on how the ingame economy works, abuse they have to fight (RMT, botting, etc). Hell Eve online they give access to the data behind for universities to study in peer reviewed research. I would love if we could easily point to X writeup from Y University and have direct proof via publically accessible data how severe the problem actually is. But instead since Blizzard doesnt want to release the data. All we can go off of is their statements, interviews done with gold sellers/buyers, first hand accounts and public opinion from players who post their experiences and opinions online.
I never said it “fixes” everything to ban GDKPs, i said it helps reduce the supply/demand relationship in gold buying/selling. Blizzard obviously need to have an abuse team like Eve Online has to actively hunt down and ban bots, hunt down and ban those spamming about 3rd party websites and services, etc. However, considering they have like 10 GMs now (based on ex-gm’s interviews) i don’t think things will improve in this regard anytime soon. Thus, the situation wont ever feel “fixed” to anyone as there will be constant reminders.
Point is you don’t have to buy gold as a regular GDKP runner because your being handed gold someone else (more than likely multiple other people) RMT’d before the raid. Its literally the same concept as money laundering except in a video game. You take “dirty” money someone else received launder it through a “legitimate” service and then pay people with the resulting funds. Of course those receiving the money with zero risk of getting in trouble themselves aren’t going to complain. They get huge influxes of gold for raiding for 3 hours and dont have to farm gold for the rest of the expansion as a result.
Eventually, though raid leads(primarily) who by and large get the largest cut have admitted and been caught in the act of selling gold. It’s literally in the MetaGoblin investigative journalism video, some of the top GDKP guilds in the world had their raid leads caught selling gold for $$$. If its such a pure and innocent loot system why is the “best” examples of long running and well known GDKP groups having their leadership caught for gold selling/RMT. Because they can make hundreds or even thousands of dollars in a month playing WoW for a dozen hours per week. Once theyve pre-paid their sub for 10 years, stockpiled a dozen alts with gold and bought all the cosmetic items and BOEs they could want there isn’t anything else to spend it on.
