Okay, that’s after the wow token came out + literal years of gold generation…
Why are you dummies surprised there’s a lot of RMT when blizzard makes it literally LEGAL by adding a token you can buy with your own money.
So it’s actually not about RMT, you just hate GDKP
You can’t prove that 3m on a ring isn’t “legal” RMT since they added the token. Welcome to pandora’s box that opened years ago with the TBCC char boosts and the mount, and later the addition of the token. It’s 90% likely to be RMT but welcome to the wow token. You literally cannot prove whether it was “legally” purchased gold from blizzard or not.
You do realize someone can’t buy items in raid (within TOS rules) if GDKPs are banned right? Regardless of if its originating from a WoW token or originating from 3rd party websites. It helps make both methods of aquisition against the TOS and makes it a bannable offense.
The issue is RMT, GDKP is not any more of a reason for RMT than the AH or Epic mounts or getting boosted have been for the last decade. MAYBE you could make an argument that people buy larger quantities, but you have no proof anywhere except Blizzard’s word. And their word is worth approximately nothing.
There is legal RMT available in wrath and now in cata, you cannot be surprised when people use a tool that is made fair game. Ban RMT, don’t add the token, and there’s no issue.
Bots are purchasing the tokens to pay their subs for free usually.
Idk how you understand that the token is essentially zero-sum but you have an issue with GDKP, just because the potential RMT? When will you guys crusade against the AH then? Or is the AH fine because it’s lower quantities of gold?
The AH doesn’t really give anyone an advantage in game (like gear does) besides the ability to buy BOEs at the start of a phase (which is only a couple pieces) and consumables (everyone has to buy these anyways to raid properly).
Outside of that everything you can buy is for professions, for cosmetics, etc.
GDKP’s on the otherhand allow people to directly purchase their BIS gear as it drops as long as they have enough gold to outbid everyone else.
If you can’t understand how that differs from the AH then I can’t really help you.
Lionheart is bis for warriors for all of vanilla, edgemasters are bis for offrace warriors for basically the entire game (until they get a rare weapon off kelthuzad every other warrior also wants) and sell for upwards of 4k even without heavy gdkp. You can’t make the bis gear argument when there is literally bis gear on the ah. If you want to get real specific, for MC/Ony phase, warriors use up to 7 boes off the AH as their bis… but swiping for that isn’t p2w in the same way as raiding, killing the boss with a group and earning the right to bid the loot off.
Darkmoon cards have been bis for multiple phases from tbc->onwards.
You only have an issue because it’s bop? Like, that’s incredibly selective to take issue with while people continue to swipe on SoD to use the AH.
It’s a group formed on the premise of that being the loot system, everyone going to the raid understands they will be bidding gold for gear. It’s DKP but instead of being locked to a guild it has value everywhere.
Anyone can farm Darkmoon cards, you dont need a raid group just time investment.
Lionheart helm is a profession item, thus someone has to gather the materials, craft the item post it, etc. These plans can drop from the open world aswell as raids anyone can farm them. Again, which requires zero RMT to accomplish.
Edgemasters can be farmed solo without the need for a group, its a matter of time and RNG ( 0.2% drop chance). You dont need gold or even professions to get it.
You don’t have to buy any of these BOE’s if you want to get them the way the game was intended to be played either go out and farm quests, farm materials and make items for the AH and then buy these items. Or go out and farm for the plans/items/materials and craft them yourself.
As I stated previously if someone is going to buy BOE’s or consumables off the AH that part is a native option built into the game by design and the nature of the items being BOE. The prices on those are actually feasable to farm for (in WOTLK for example which you mentioned you can farm 600 gold per day doing daily runs per character). 4,000 gold isn’t an unobtainable ammount from legitimate gameplay.
The difference between DKP and GDKP is obvious. DKP you earn “currency” for each boss you kill/raid you attend, etc. So it incentivizes being an active player in a social environment (which is what Classic WoW was designed to be). GDKP’s on the otherhand encourage raid logging, gold buying and no social interaction being required at all. Effectively, killing the entire purpose of an MMO in the first place.
the big externality that pro-GDKP people want to ignore is massive inflation from whales and GDKP-rich raid leads throwing gold around that makes it difficult for average players to do things like buy portals, runes, profession mats, recipes or consumables. Similarly, if people swipe and boost, that depletes the population that wants to do dungeons the normal way. Suddenly, it’s more difficult to get groups for RFD or Gnomer or Ulda or Mara or WC because the boosters are piling toons into the most optimal dungeons to run and are getting paid in botted gold purchased for RMT by those players.
And yet the sweats at the start of each xpac buy their darkmoon cards for 10’s of thousands of gold, because it’s bis.
And yet it costs thousands of gold if you don’t have a guild crafter and no way to directly farm the mats.
Farming a boe world drop is a hilarious joke, 99.99% of equipped edgemasters will be obtained from the AH because it’s so absolutely improbable you’d ever see them yourself, and yet off-race warriors need them.
If you take raiding remotely seriously you should have your bis items, not getting your bis items that can be obtained without impacting your raid team is akin to wasting the time of 39 other people because you can’t be bothered. If those are the circles you’re in, that’s fine, but for the rest of us skipping on bis gear isn’t acceptable behavior.
The overwhelming majority of GDKP’s (aka non-content making groups) sold items for less than most of the boes I’ve mentioned btw. It’s only outlier gdkps/gdkps actually clearing the very difficult content (like week 1 heroic 25 LK) that tend to have higher bidding especially in the early weeks for bis/big ticket items (think dbw from saurfang). And then things even out further as people stop contesting as many items.
GDKP is the same as DKP except it’s not locked to a guild I might end up leaving due to any number of reasons from, not liking the way the raid is handled (ex, wanting a group that takes things more seriously), maybe I don’t like someone in the raid and they make my raid time not enjoyable, maybe the guild falls apart, and now all that DKP is worthless. It holds no value other than in those raids. Also, GDKP encouraging raid logging is hilarious considering how much raid logging happens regardless of GDKP. The vast majority of the playerbase doesn’t engage in any of the content except PvE raiding every week, getting their world buffs and maybe some light farming to replenish consumables (on SoD that’s even less because you just do the dailies every day in 15 minutes). There’s nothing encouraging raid logging if there’s other content to do, unfortunate that they killed PvP on SoD by leaving boomkin, shaman, and hunters (just a short list) broken for literal months. None of that has anything to do with GDKP.
Your only issues with spending “large” sums of gold on items is apparently if it’s BoP and drops from a raid. You have 0 issue with whether the items are actually bis or not, you don’t care that a GDKP raid still has to clear the content, you just hate the potential for RMT. I’m sorry you live in a fantasy world, I look forward to what you’ll say when anniversary is just as flooded with RMT as SoD is.
Except this isn’t the reality. It’s cheaper on cata to raid right now than it is on SoD. And as a matter of fact, the only reason SoD raiding is as cheap as it is, is the additional mechanism’s blizzard added to farming professions and alchemy, giving more resources from nodes and alchemy specializations.
" It’s also undeniable that GDKP contributes to and drives a lot of illicit activity, such as real-money trading (RMT) and botting, as it creates a demand for in-game gold that would not otherwise exist. GDKP can create an “arms race” effect that encourages participating players to purchase gold to be able to compete for the best items."
Farming 10,000 gold throughout WOTLK was entirely possible and not really that hard tbh. You could earn 600 gold per day just doing dailies. Not counting questing on the side, doing your daily heroic dungeon, etc.
How would you not be able to directly farm the materials they are all available via the open world. People advertise their crafting services in trade chat all the time with little to no fee for crafting your item.
This is literally the entire basis of classic WoW, farming low drop chance items (mounts, pets, etc) between raids.
Weird you think that the only way to obtain your BIS items is via Swipping a credit card. Pre-raid bis is commonly easily farmable (even if sometimes there is a time crunch) via reputation, farming materials and having a crafter make your item, farming world/boss drops, doing archeology, etc. Considering I’ve been pre-raid BIS all the way from Classoc WOTLK Naxx till now Classic Cataclysm its not that hard.
Sure the prices on things 1-2 months in start reaching a “sane” level in comparison with BOEs. But that doesn’t change the fact most if not all the gold being funneled into all the GDKP runners pockets originates primarily from botted gold sold via 3rd party websites.
GDKP is not the same as DKP by any means. DKP causes zero inflation as its a guild specific currency. You can run 100 raids with a DKP system and people won’t have any negative impact on the in game economy. GDKPs on the other hand use a game wide currency that has a direct impact on all in game services as a result (boosting runs, AH, crafting services, etc). GDKPs do incentivize raid logging because there is zero need to run dailies, your daily dungeon, quest/farm gold, etc. RMT players can just login get the gold from their seller, go to raid, get their items, enchant/gem/etc the items then log out.
If you understood how ingame economies work at all (im doubting you do based on this discussion) you’d know there is TONs of research on how 3rd party website RMT, systems that encourage RMT, etc contribute to the profit gain for botters. Which directly incentivizes botters to not only do it in the first place but scale up their operations to meet demand so they can sell as much gold as possible. GDKPs have a direct incentivization process to this cycle. Specifically, because whoever has the most gold wins the item. Thus, if you want to ensure you win the items your wanting from a GDKP run you want to walk in with as much gold as you can.
If you ever want to actually understand the details of how systems like this work, how game developers fight it, what impacts this all has on ingame economies, etc you can look easily at Eve Online who has by far the most well understood, maintained and stable economies in any multi-player game ive ever seen.
First rule of buying gold club is to type; ‘people who GDKP don’t buy gold and they just do GDKP because its the best loot system’ anytime they see a new thread about it.
Farming 5k gold in a week of vanilla was totally possible if you weren’t bad, so what’s your point here? 4 hours a night would’ve netted me 5k a week with what I was doing, now imagine a sweat doing the same farm for 8-12 hours a day… (since I know you’re bad with basics that’s 10k-15k a week)
Even with mining, farming a lionheart helm manually is actually pretty unfeasible due to the low drop rate of arcane crystals unless you’re extremely lucky, ergo most of your mats will be bought off the AH. With guess what, gold.
Most of those rare items have a specific source you can directly farm, nobody “farms” Teebu’s, you either get lucky at some point in your life and see one drop or you don’t. I’ve been playing vanilla for ~13 years combined, and never seen one drop period.
Weird how you immediately accuse me of swiping. GDKP isn’t swiping. Stop conflating the two because of cheaters who should be banned per the ToS. Maybe grow up and blame the actual problem here, Blizzard NOT enforcing their ToS, and not people who prefer a loot system. I’ve been pre-bis week 1 of every xpac since 2019, that’s not a flex. And I raided on my main in a guild that used LC… so only my alts went to GDKP’s or my main might go if my guild was on hiatus leading up to a new xpac.
Source? Because the RMT and botting hasn’t stopped on servers where GDKP is banned, and judging by the mass of summoning bots on SoD, wasn’t even slowed down.
GDKP doesn’t cause inflation either you moron. Look at cata, it has literally been cheaper to raid on cata for the last 6 months than it has been to raid on sod. AND AGAIN, the only reason sod is as cheap as it is, is because of buffs to resource nodes and alch specs. WHICH YOU KEEP IGNORING BTW. SoD ALSO has absolutely RAMPANT botting with no GDKP. Nothing has changed. You’re arguing over banning a loot system that is widely preferred (reminder, the forums users and redditors are the minority of all users) because of potential RMT, which is still happening on servers where said loot system is banned… btw, RMT is against the ToS and has been for the last 20 years. Maybe they should enforce that.
The fact that you freaks keep automatically assuming anyone who prefers GDKPs is someone who must swipe and buy gold only hurts your position btw. You make yourselves insufferable, just witch hunting people for preferring a loot system.
I saw a really funny post from a pro-gdkp poster who claimed people are against gdkps because it’s easier for Blizz to track their gold buying in gdkps, rather than doing it ‘outside the game’.
I mean, the cope is insane. The stuff these guys come up with.
He definitely does, why would someone have 3 million gold after like 4 years on a character, doing gdkps, playing the ah, doing dailies/farming etc? Surely they only have that much if they swiped for all 3 million. Lets also forget that the token was in at this point so even if he DID buy gold, he could’ve obtained it “legally” thanks to blizzard being so out of touch they’d kill their own game.
Well considering even if the person farmed 10,000 gold a week on average (good luck with that in vanilla and TBC) it would take 300 weeks of non-stop farming (5.77 years) at that rate to meet that volume I would say most likely yes.
Given the only 2 real alternatives are:
The person is somehow a god on the AH and has 3 million gold as disposable income (unlikely, not everyone can “win” in the AH. This is a ficticious scenario GDKP people being up thats never actually had proof).
The person joined in GDKPs for years and stockpilled gold (the most likely alternative). But remember blizzard themselves, gold buyers/sellers, other players, etc have all stated seeing direct ties between Gold buying/selling and GDKPs. So even if that player aquired the 3 million gold via GDKPs over time a good portion of that is “likely” originating from 3rd party gold buying sites.
If you doubt me on the blizzard linking it directly with RMT read the post yourself
