That started in MoP, prior to that they had exactly the same direction in gameplay, Obliterate hit hard with DW.
Even now, the spec revolves around burst windows. BoS is a burst window and outside of that your damage is kind of meh. The Icecap build also revolves around a type of burst mechanic. Both of those have nothing to do with the type of weapon it currently uses. Even in WoD, if you watch Hazzeds video, he was using BoS with 2h. Its a biased video, but that doesnt matter in this context.
It is not how DW has always functioned. Its how it functioned in 2 expansions, MoP and WoD and that is when the Masterfrost Build started for DW where HB with mastery would outdamage Obliterate and even at those times people actually wanted to use Obliterate, they didnt like that you ignored part of your core kit and it devolved into mashing basically 2 buttons. While it did do good damage, it wasnt highly popular. The initial gameplay was what 2h became and what people liked, what I actually liked as well and its why I think the spec is more important than the weapon is. Like I have said before I dont care about 2h one way or the other. It can come back, or it wont. It has absolutely no impact on me.
This is a baseless assumption of my intentions that you can never possibly demonstrate. Assumptions don’t help you in a conversation.
Yyyyyyes you are. You said the playstyle isn’t the way it is now because of DW. Yyyyes it is. You’re just denying this for whatever reason. It’s not up for debate. That’s how the game worked.
But it does revolve around these burst windows right now doesnt it? Didnt DW buff Frost Strike damage? But if its hitting like a noodle right now then its not really following that trend that its designed for DW. What about the weapons makes BoS a DW ability? Cold Heart? Icecap? That those abilities are frost damage and DW focused on frost damage?
Im just trying to understand the logic where the claim “its designed around DW” which that statement holds true just because it uses those weapons. There is no causal link of the 2 ways to play it right now is tied to the weapon choice at all. Historically as well Obliterate has been the only physical damage ability outside of auto attacks and death rune conversion so its been a pretty frost focused spec.
You are misunderstanding and misusing the term “burst window.” The current Frost DK has DPS windows. Basically, their DPS is very bad until the DPS window hits, in which case DPS becomes good to very good. Thats not burst.
As I said above, the 2H Frost DKs prior to breaths nerf, or the Ret Paladins of classic were BURST classes.
This is the equivalent of saying “no u!”. I tried to have a discussion with you again but you just keep denying everything everybody says. You haven’t provided any citations or foundations for what you’re saying.
I genuinely don’t understand why she is so worked up, what is the point that she is arguing? That she is not debating 2H versus DW in a forum thread titled “Frost, time to end DW vs 2h and Talk about real issues?”
There are some people that just absolutely cannot accept that they’re wrong. I provided citations, links, demonstrations, propositions, and even videos that I made myself. She denied all of them. There’s not much I can do at this point.
She ignored and denied other users who were trying to support 2h Frost and provide evidence as well. The way it is, we can’t win if we try to argue with her, she’ll ALWAYS rig everything to be in her favor and say she wins in the end. The only way to truly stop her, is to not play her game and ignore her like the nobody she is. Same thing for all those other toxic anti-2h Frost guys. If they wanna pick a fight, we just say “NO!”, by ignoring them and continuing on with what we try to do to make the environment not as toxic as they want to make it to delegitimize all of us.
No its not. And you are shutting it down just saying “your wrong”. Just like people were saying I was wrong, including you about how the damage was calculated out and what happened there?
And you havent provided anything either, but people can fact check if they want to.
Wow, we have been having a discussion and then this comes out.
And yes look at the title, which is supposed to be talking about the spec because the weapon has nothing to do with it. Give frost 2h and absolutely nothing changes. That is the point of this thread.
Who brought up DW and how the spec is designed around it? It wasnt me.
That is plain out wrong. You demonstrated in the video exactly what I said about how Obliterate works. Attack power and armor, I wasnt adding in versatility though so… oops.
But lets count how many people are talking about me in a negative light and not actually addressing what I say. 4 people in a row just bashing someone based on what exactly?
Its just a dismissal because “I dont like you” at this point and its the same 4 people liking each others posts. This is why threads get shut down, not because of a disagreement, but because of what you guys are doing right now.
No it isnt, look at the title and the first post. Time to end DW vs 2h and talk about the real issues, the first post goes into detail that it is not a DW vs 2h thing but actually a spec issue.
Goes into asking why doesnt Obliterate scale with mastery and that it feels bad to press. Goes into talking about Frost Fever and having an alternative way of applying it other than HB. Goes into how they dont like Breath but it does so much damage if you pull off your rotations well that you cant ignore it.
Goes into talk about the talent tree for frost and how in their opinion its just bad and that you overlook other choices because something else is just hands down superior.
This is exactly what im talking about.
And then what is the next post? “There will be no end until we have our two-handed weapons back AS FROST” derailing a discussion that was supposed to be about the frost spec. It wasnt a DW supporter that derailed it, and it was a 2h supporter that started the thread in the first place.
They even asked for input on how to fix the spec mechanically other than adding 2handers and what did the next post say? “Give us back our weapons, and then we’ll talk about fixing the spec” almost like some people dont really care about the spec and just want a “cool look”.
So yes, lets stay on topic. This is a thread about the spec and how to fix it mechanically, even if that just means shifting around where damage comes from, but it was a 2h supporter that made it about the weapon.
Do you dispute this claim? If so show proof. You can just scroll up if you want to to see what the OP actually said instead of making the thread about what you want it to be which has now turned into the same 4 people from other threads bashing me for “reasons”.
That is debating DW vs 2H, its just taking a specific angle to the debate - which is fine. Your opinion is fine, mine is fine. Your opinion appears to be that the larger issue isn’t the weapon choice, but the larger spec itself. I actually agree with you. But I still want 2H frost back because many people are being prevented from enjoying Frost at all due to weapon choice. Both opinions are fine and not contradictory to each other.
Who cares, get over it. People insulted me, including you, but I am not going on and on about it. Its an internet forum. There are more important matters. Stop going on and on about it.
No it isnt for crying out loud just read the thing.
The OP wanted nothing about weapons in here and worded it in that way.
Yes, its an internet forum that has certain rules which you guys arent following.
Again, do you dispute what I said about this thread? You cant because its right all contained right here in the thread and the OP has stated that this is NOT a debate on the weapons but alas you guys turned it into one.
How about you guys stop going on and on about 2h. Blizzard knows about it, there are more important matters.
I agree, I loved all the DK specs when it first came out. I also agree that jsut merely adding 2H Frost will not fix the spec. I, however, would not be okay if they just fixed the spec but continued to force Frost to DW.
I want 2H Frost back.
It would be very nice if they added something in mastery to apply to Obl. Or, they could make Obl a frost dmg skill, but have to re-balance it accordingly.
Alternatively, Bliz could just add a new mastery, one which solely applies to DW and one which solely applies to 2H. That way those masteries can be tuned separately for balance purposes. Changing one would not directly alter the balance of the other.
In my opinion, more diseases would be welcome for a DK, as long as we dont have to cast more spells to apply them, most should be applied from the various strikes, themselves. Frost should maintain the feel of a melee DPS. More spells runs the risk of making us feel like a Necromancer with a sword, which is what Unholy feels like to me atm. If I want to play a caster, I will play a caster.