they should bring 2H back then fix the spec around the two playstyles
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Completely agree, make a mental list of all the DW DPS specs out there, then think of the minuscule number of 2H DPS ones. It makes you wonder if Bliz is keeping track at all.
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Minuscule is not the word you should be using to describe an 8:4 difference; and that ratio is considering that an entire class makes up three of those dual-wield specs, Rogue. And do you really want them to force specs into certain weapon types just to adhere to some arbitrary tally, and not the lore or class distinction? That’s a pretty ridiculous notion.
Is that better? Don’t think it makes my point any less valid…
What is the number really though -
DW Specs
2 Demon Hunter DW Specs,
1 DK DW Spec,
3 Rogue DW Specs
1 Shaman DW Spec
1 Warrior DW Spec
1 Monk DW Spec
2H Specs
1 Warrior 2H Spec
1 Paladin 2H Spec
2 Death Knight 2H Specs (although Blood is a tank spec and Unholy is a Pet Management Spec)
As such, in reality, there are only 2 2H DPS specs focused on raw melee damage - Arms Warrior and Ret Paladin
Its so obvious now why 2H was taken away from Frost, there were already sooo many choices for 2H DPS
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It would be nice if 2h frost was at least an option.
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Where does fury fall? DW or 2h? Or would it technically fall under both.
All plate classes use a 2h in one spec or another, Frost is the only spec that uses 1h str weapons in the dps role.
Once you start to actually go through things it’s not so cut and dry.
It wields two weapons, therefore its a dual wielding class. Doesn’t really matter if a warrior dual wields two three handed weapons, there are still two of them, one in each hand.
EDIT: Seriously, whats the purpose of switching characters, you and Monkiy suddenly, by coincidence, are responding together? I can see you both typing responses, one after the other.
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Your point didn’t have validity to it to begin with. A tally between the two is completely arbitrary. It means nothing. There’s no reason that they need to be kept even in any way whatsoever. Let them do whatever makes the most sense with the lore or class identities.
Just for the sake of clarification, when I counted four two-handed specs I was only considering DPS specs and included Survival in my count, not Blood.
Said by someone who clearly doesn’t mind DW classes.
Then replace blood with hunter. There are still only 2 true Melee focused DPS classes, I guess 3 if you consider a hunter a melee class. Its still a Pet class. The same applies to unholy DK.
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More of this “you 2 are the same person” bs. And it is bs based on nothing and it makes anything you say sound childish because you can’t have a normal conversation. It’s a conspiracy theory based on nothing.
You want to add your own ideals into it. Even ret isn’t purely melee. It has what? 2 melee attacks in its kit. Crusader strike and templars verdict and the rest are spell like abilities.
Almost like everything has an identity to it. Frost DW 1h, unholy 2h dotlike pet spec, ret direct damage 2h with spells in it, fury 2h DW melee, arms 2h melee that focuses on burst windows (if it’s the same way still) and it goes on and on.
I mean there is this fight against homogenization and what is your argument? More of it? More of the same full melee class to go around and let me guess, it should be frost because boohoo I don’t like DW. You guys really make it hard to support something when you guys act this way.
Shall I do the same to you then? You and Frostlich are the same people, I can’t believe he is turning to himself for comfort because he can’t handle a discussion. Do you see how blatantly foolish that is to do when it’s based on absolutely nothing other than you heard other people say it.
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I am arguing for more diversity by having more 2H DPS specs and less DW DPS specs, which are currently dominating the melee DPS game by a long shot… But, I am the one supporting homogenization somehow?
Interesting.
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Because we aren’t the same person, and multiple people can respond on a forum at any time. Shocker. You’re clinging to a bunk conspiracy for no reason. Give it up. It should already be abundantly clear by now that we aren’t the same person, that we don’t hold exactly the same views (even if we do largely agree on certain aspects of this discussion), that we respond to different people with different ideas or perspectives, that we’ve even had exchanges between each other, etc. It’s really ridiculous that anyone would still stick to the idea that we’re the same person when it lacks any and all evidence. Stop detracting from the actual discussion with this made up fantasy.
Attacking the person and not the argument again. You didn’t defend your stance at all.
Would you care to break down the weapons even further? Frost is the only dps spec that uses 1h str weapons, Rogues use daggers for the most part, Enhancement uses 1h agi weapons and are limited to what, axes and maces? Ret is limited to 2h str weapons, Unholy is limited to 2h weapons, Arms is limited to 2h weapon, Blood is limited to 2h weapons, DH uses 1h glaives swords and axes and are the only ones that can even use glaives. Looks like 2h is spread across more in that sense.
Its real easy to pick through things and look at it different ways to get different results. The way I look at it is 2h is shared across more specs. Care to dispute that?
Who gets these 2h more, but it looks like the way you are talking is 2h str weapons which the only option would be Frost because it seems like you just dont like DW.
And so what if someone likes DW? The only thing that you can say at that point is that they like it. In fact which I dont want to speak for them, is that they dont want the problems to return that caused 2h to be removed in the first place. Its not like Blizzard just decided one day “you know what, we dont like 2h frost anymore, screw everyone lets remove it and watch them complain for years to come!”.
Its also kind of funny that the top raiders are doing all these logs and sims which are showing the specs being relatively close and that you might be taking Frost into the new raid for progression. Its up for change, but its weird how its getting worse and worse yet its performing. It would almost seem people just dont like the playstyle of Frost which is NOT the fault of the weapon choice that Blizzard put into place because it performed better than 2h for most of the time since Wrath.
I dont care if you use 2h, if it comes back, good, we dont have to listen to you guys complain anymore about it and if there is any one reason to bring it back it would be that.
Yes it is. The spec is the way it is now because Blizzard built it around the DW. Mediocre Obliterates and modest Frost Strikes, both of which are outpaced by Howling Blast. DW functioned on consistency and stability, not high damage. That’s why we find it boring, and that’s why the spec is stupid now. Just try running PvP with Frost and see the differences damage application in comparison to every other class. It’s a turtle in a horse race. You have no choice but to constantly swap to Death Strike spamming and other defensives because every other class puts out damage far more rapidly than you do. This has been the case at least since Death Siphon came out, and it is still the case now. In Legion, for some reason they decided to remove Death Siphon and Conversion and then had to compensate so hard for the absence of heals they added in a full-capper for Death Strike with the artifact talent. This was not a problem with 2H. The only reason we’re solely DW now is because this game’s #1 priority is raiding and always has been. If WoW was a PvP-focused game, we would have been using Frostmourne.
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No, it isn’t. It’s just something you made up to try to put blame on the weapons. DW if anyone played more than the last 3 expansions would know that this isn’t the case and that class design has gone downhill all together. There is absolutely nothing in the spec that points to “this is the fault of DW” and even in Legion it wasn’t this bad.
You just miss the obliterate gimmick with 2h, it’s gone.
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You’re just wrong. I mained Frost Wrath, MoP, WoD, Legion, and this xpac. I played both DW and 2H and know how they functioned. You’re just going in circles with the same incorrect, vague, unsubstantiated statements. As i will explain again, the class design is the way it is now because it was based on the DW mechanics before Legion. Petty Obliterates, modest Frost Strikes, and Howling Blast procs. That’s generally how DW worked before and that’s how it works now. Good in PvE, unimpressive in PvP. I already explained this. I played it. If you want to deny the way the game worked, then there’s only so much anybody can do to have a conversation with you. You’re denying in-game mechanics.
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Yeah, DW Frost was built around Frost Strike, not Obliterate. 2H was built around Obliterate, not Frost Strike. Since Legion, Bliz revamped the class to focus on the DW mindset, which is why DKs now do consistent DPS and have very little burst - That has always been how the DW DK functioned. Is that really up for debate?
Some people like that playstyle, I would argue most people who think Frost DKs would stereotypically think of bursty class with big crits, not smallish individual damage connected to a larger consistent DPS number
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Really? Frost strike did little damage but it was buffed by ToT to be the hard hitter of DW in MoP and WoD and Obliterate took a back seat when that happened, when they tried to separate the specs. In cata all that MotFW did was increase melee damage for 2h to try to close that gap so it wasnt so far behind DW.
And no im not denying in game mechanics at all. Even in Legion there were things that buffed Oblit like it having more crit damage for example. Legion was not like how it is now and how it is now is a shadow of what it was. That is all. I will use wrath as an example again, Obliterate did hit hard in wrath with DW doing around 25k crits and 2h was critting for about that much as well.
You just want something to blame and it looks like you dont like DW so you just pile it on there, like people have been doing to me throughout these threads.
Thats not an attack, its a statement. The point of the statement was that people who don’t mind playing DW DPS specs don’t mind the fact that the vast majority of DPS melee specs are DW. For those of us who like variety of prefer other ways of playing Melee DPS, like 2H, do not like the fact that most DPS melee specs are DW.
Respectfully, just because I disagree with you, doesn’t mean I am personally attacking you.
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If I remember correct Frost was pretty bursty in legion with breath and other cd coordination? I didn’t play it then but I remember playing against it.