I will never understand this. Frost dk’s have always had a large group that wanted dual wield, even in the expacs where it was a horrible dps decision, they went for dual wield. 2h doesn’t feel frost
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Disagree. I would much rather use a 2hander anytime as a DK over dw majority of the time. But I am sure there are plenty of people on both sides.
That being said, I like that DK has the option to do both for those who want it.
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To the above posters; I can agree and am really thankful the option is still there. I tolerate 2h. I love my dual wielding when I can get away with it.
To me, Frost kinda fills that “spellblade” I’d like to play when I ignore the “death” part of the class. I wield two swords and cast magics that enhance me and damage foes with a variety of spells at my disposal for different needs.
I know that’s not the design intent and technically I guess shaman kinda does the same with enhance but its… not the same as being a plate wearing, sword spinning KNIGHT.
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That’s real good to hear! Do you still need DnD and Cleaving Strikes to do good AoE damage or are the new talents enough to stray away from it?
Hard disagree with this. Frostscythe lost identity almost as soon it was introduced and is now completely deprecated because of Cleaving Strikes. The new design is a good middleground for it.
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Someone needs to do testing with the Shatter talents as that’s basically DW’s talent branch since they can stack RI fastest and requires Frost Strike.
very excited for frostscythe to be a medium cooldown button that hits hard! i really really hope its viable in single target.
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this is the best news in a long long time man, thanks so much for sharing, i can’t wait to play it myself when the beta drops.
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No, I mean the forums which are a minority.
Its not the primary location for feedback. They rarely visit the forums. They even have a bot to police the thing they care about coming here so much.
Many. BoS wont want to use this during its BoS windows which limits its uses. Obliteration builds still have a flood of resources during its CD’s and Blizzard isnt done with it as they said. You also lose RI stacks on the target limiting who can use this (DW players) and could possibly bring in double RI runeforges just for faster RI stacking to minimize the loss.
Well this isnt it. Especially not for 2h since it is 100% a DW option.
Arctic Assault.
It really isnt. It is still competing with Obliterate since it has a rune cost and would have to do as much as a Cleaving Strikes Obliterate + Arctic Assault to be worth the press. This also puts more power into KM procs because they also reduce the CD of Frostscythe.
Did you actually think about the changes or were you just happy that there were changes? Obliteration is going to go through some changes as well because its not finished and Obliteration still doesnt want to use RP during its CD’s. Also in order for RP to even want to be spent in Obliteration builds, RP is going to have to have some oomph which probably means a nerf to Obliterate since they arent nerfing pillar or KM proc rates it seems.
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Zero 1h weapons. Zero offhand weapons. No looting 1h weapons. No equipping 1h weapons. No equipping more than one weapon. No dual wield in any way, shape, or form. Never. It wouldn’t feel right to equip a different number of weapons than I am showing via transmog. Even if the quantity of weapons was the same (fury warrior) it would feel wrong to equip a different type of weapon (2h) than what I have transmogged (in this example 1h weapons). Transmog only is unacceptable. Glyphs that act like transmog are unacceptable. To repeat - there are no compromises that would ever get me to consider dw in any form whatsoever.
The only acceptable solution is equipping only one weapon total (a 2h) and transmogging that same weapon to the same weapon type that I have equipped (2h) like how transmog functions right now. End of story.
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I’m not sure what you disagree with is it that frostscythe does not provide a resource conserving rotation or that even if it is used by players soloing dungeons that they should not even be given the option to use this in a choice node with the new redesigned frostscythe. please clarify
The new frost changes are pretty cool! I think my main concern is that our obliteration cleave is still tied to death and decay. The class fantasy would be more solidified with our obliteration cleave coming from remorseless winter. Just replacing dnd with remorseless winter when specced into frost would be fine. This would make the flow of frost so much better.
Also, can we not have BoS nerfed in pvp. Lets make it relevant again!
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The fact that people still think that DW for frost meant rapid fire kind of shows that no one actually played Frost. DW was a 2h with the benefit of having 2 1h weapons.
The only reason why I could see people play 2h is because it had 1 large number instead of 2 when you used things like Obliterate or Frost Strike… but those 2 numbers were bigger than that 1 when combined.
But the spec is swinging back to DW with these changes, big time.
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Good thing your opinion doesn’t matter then.
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There are both good and bad things about this.
It’s nice to see changes, but at the same time a lot of these look like they’re throwing #^%% at the wall to see what sticks.
A couple of things to point out:
*There are some old tier bonuses being thrown in as talents which is extremely low effort, and some that should have been base functionality (CS bounce off dk).
*Buffs to AA and AA oriented talents are pushing the spec back to DW which isn’t necessarily bad, but blizz just spent an entire expac going in the opposite direction by attempting to balance 2h (which ended up overpowering DW oblit for the entire expac). Make up your mind blizz…
*Move towards AA/DW build triples down on maintenance buffs and the steep uptime requirement of frost; especially bad while CDR/icecap remains a mechanic
*There are some weird talent locations within the tree and many conflicting idea between ST and AoE. FSC seems odd, will likely require a huge damage buff. None of these ideas feel very cohesive.
*Certain talents should be baseline (howling blast, interrupt in class tree).
Compared to the unholy changes, these seem quite all over the place as if they’ve got not concrete direction and are trying a lot of ideas at the moment. It seems like the majority of feedback, suggestions and complaints have been largely ignored in typical blizz fashion as it has to be their way or idea, even if it’s terrible. The doubling down on cleaving strikes is also sad to see, at least it’s a minor improvement even if the base mechanical idea of standing in circle is outdated and objectively bad.
It’s weird that it currently looks like they will choose to alienate the 2h enjoyers once again, as I don’t see any direct route for them to balance some of the new talents with regards to 2h without creating a mountain of work and hamfisted talents to provide parity.
Not excited about any of this, and it needs a tremendous amount of polish imo. I feel like a lot of people are so tired of being ignored they think any change is good change regardless of what’s actually being proposed.
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one, this is just the first round of changes. take demo for example. last week the demo community was up in arms about the changes. this week most demo players are super happy about the the new changes now.
So this week is just the first for frost. More will come.
Two, the new changes are for bringing dw in line with 2h. most players arent a fan of breath, so if you are then playing oblit which you are forced to play 2h because 2h was far better. Now dw can finally be played and be competitive with 2h for oblit. and one of the talent points only allows up to a max of 5 second increase to pof, so that already balances dw and 2h.
Three, the class tree is much better now. a lot of the 2 point nodes are gone. we are able to take 3 capstone talent points. which is amazing.
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BoS will always be meh in PvP considering you can instantly shut it down with CC.
Unrelated side note, shattered frost is a nonsensical name for the capstone talent. It should be “Shattered Ice”, you can’t really shatter frost and for all intents and purposes you’re shattering the razorICE stacks. *The tab targeting implications of this in aoe have me dreading a similar zit popping style of unh - big dislike here.
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Good for you. Frost will still be capable of using 2H weapons in TWW.
Whether or not that’s the best option, well, we’ll see. On the one hand, I’d love for Blizzard to keep DW as strictly superior for Frost, but that’s just my own personal spitefulness speaking. On the other hand, if I’m being realistic/pleasant about this, it’d be better for the spec if they somehow equalize both.
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That’s what I want. Both 2h and dw equalized. Ideally even equalizing Breath and Obliteration between weapon types if that’s possible just in case anyone wants a dw Obliteration build or a 2h Breath build. For me personally, I prefer 2h Onliteration builds; as long as I can continue to do that I will be happy (although I do wish that Obliterate cleave was not tied to Death and Decay).
I won’t deny that it can be easy to get defensive after Legion and BfA temporarily required dw. That being said, the devs did restore 2h frost in 9.0 and they have continued to support it, so it does give me hope for the future.
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Would require an entire spec overhaul and that would effectively remove DW as an option because no one in their right mind would spend more time getting weapons to do the same as someone that just gets 1 weapon.
And what exactly is the issue with DW? DW is a 2h for Frost with the benefits of having 2 weapons. If it boils down to a look then this entire thing could have been avoided with transmog. What is wrong with transmog other than you just being stubborn about it? 2h doesnt have precedence with the spec so saying DW can be the transmog option isnt an option at this point. Not only that but it would be a gameplay downgrade and that is what feels do bad to people who play the spec as intended.