The last 2 row talents they put in the DK area don’t make any sense for Frost DK unless it’s for PvP. I don’t play Unholy, but they are probably in the same situation. Already, the abomination limb doesn’t give a rime or unholy effect; it’s not necessary for rotation anymore, and the damage is so minimal that it’s not a good talent to pick. The Suppresion talent (damage taken from AOE is a PVP talent or tank), Runic protection(less chance to get critical struck and increased armor, tank / pvp ), subduing grasp(prob i will never pick abomination limb unless i need to for a specific situation ), osmosis(extra healing recived, dks are prob the most durable class and improve death strike already does the job, dont need this), blood draw(you can pick sacrifitial pact or death pact and will of the necropolist its way better talent), abomination limb(no longer rime, low dmg its not a good talent), null magic(i dont need extra magic dmg reduction, dks already have a anti magic shield and a anti magic zone with improved talents) and vestigial shell(pvp talent and maybe a high magic boss fight)… we need something else here, there is no need for any dk in pve to take them, dks already have icebound fortitude, antimagic barrier, antimagic zone and lichborne with improved talents as defensive clicks, as a dps i dont need more of those talents and dks have a lot of hp to play around and self healing meaning that i lose 2 rows of talents for nothing. What frost needs is a good single target skill, and death and decay needs to be either a huge area that allows you to always attack ont the move or make it so that the area always follows you. You always lose 3/4 of the damage because the tanks need to kite the mobs, and they always leave the DND area. And for last, if you guys are not going to give us something good, at least remove the troll talents like shattering blade or inexorable assault(literally trolling if you pick them includes the new one, pretty but why i would lose 15% frost incease dmg that all my other skills do to use 1 shatering and need to stack again razorice so i can do the dmg i was doing from the other skills). And all these changes do nothing, you end up with the same exact talent tree as you can play in DF.
While I agree that most of the talents you’ve listed don’t have much draw, these two are really good. Most of the damage a dps takes in progression content is both aoe and magical- reducing these passively is pretty huge.
This just lets AMS be useful when the damage is physical. I’m sure it boosts the healing of deathstrike just as much as a healer healing you.
This is aimed at DW. A player dual wielding with the Razorice runeforge could stack this back up in a matter of seconds.
It sounds like things are feeling great, which is all to the good. I’m looking forward to shedding the legendary and going DW; I just wish that Blood could be equipped weapon-neutral enough to DW as well so that I don’t have to farm three weapons.
I will also once again ask for a new animation for Glacial Advance and also that it be a cone rather than a narrow line.
I feel like most of DK powers need a new visual overall but at least most of our transmogs a better than most classes. 
Yes, I agree with you that those two are good for PVP, but as a PVE DPS, I don’t need them. I already have an anti-magic shell and zone on a 40-second CD and a 2-minute CD, and I have a ton of HP, so I can make a lot of mistakes and come up on top. I can assure you that I will never pick them up in any way, shape, or form. Osmosis is in the same boat; an improved death strike is enough to heal 30% HP with 1 hit. It doesn’t matter if it was magic or physical. And for the last one, I dont even know what to tell you, is a talent to deal with the no dmg syndragosa build after 30 seconds of breath, so you dont have to bring out the maracas and start cheering for the party until you can do dmg again in 2 minutes.
You do whatever makes you happy. As for me, I just can’t see skipping good defensives in content where progression is usually gated behind people dying. Even if it isn’t me that is dying, the less healing I need the more time healers have to heal others or dps themselves.
To each their own.
Ya i agree ill never understand why youre posting on a level 63 warrior in the DK forums supporting Dual wield frost dk go somewhere else because your opinion is trash
Samples are not inherently unrepresentative just from being small. All useful samples are comparatively small; they need only be just large enough and without an inherent and significantly output-affecting bias.
Do you have any evidence of a desire for public asynchronous communication, say, skewing a person towards preferring fewer but larger weapons?
We seem to see far more RP Andy posts here than theorycrafts. There are just as many who sell merely to vent as to find information from which to improve, all of which has allegedly been similar to posters’ in-game anecdotal experiences. Most seems proportional, bent only towards consolidation and refinement of ideas and positions. All of which would hint at about as functional of representation as we’re going to get and a useful if imperfect sample.
So what makes the forums some skewed/unrepresentative/conspiratorial vocal minority instead of roughly representative voice?
Tl;dr: Maybe actually put some reasoning on this instead of just calling any local majority position still a minority only when you dislike its conclusions? Or at least be aware that it would equally be true, then, of any locally popular position that you favor, too, and therefore it’s utterly irrelevant and useless even in place of a simple “Shush; me no like.”
Big tough man angy huh? Big tough man need a nap? Maybe a snickers? Grow up. No one cares.
GA visual work would be more interesting than the majority of the alpha changes. I’ll probably be playing unh in raid for another expac it seems.
You probably right, so let me correct myself. You mean the vast majority of the DK community that actually provides feedback in correct place that feedback is meant to placed?
Completely wrong. There is a reason they make all their announcements on the forums. There is a reason that they keep ALL of the feedback threads on the forums. There is a reason they hire Community Managers whos job it is is to collect and consolidate feedback data for the dev team. Providing feedback anywhere else, unless you already have a platform, such as some youtubers/streamers, is essentially pointless. And lets stop and think before anyone tries to mention Reddit as a forum for feedback…like cmon.
Its funny how every BoS player complains about not having any damage outside of their Breath windows. Its also funny that this new capstone literally gives them more damage outside of their Breath windows. And if you are using Froststrike with or without this new talent during your Breath windows, youre playing Breath horribly wrong. Id also like to point out that they specifically said that this new capstone was designed with damage outside Breath windows in mind, I called it.
Uh yeah, if youve been making arguments without any of the other expected changes in mind, youre doing a disservice to the feedback.
Well its a good thing Razorice is also applied by Glacial Advance and Avalanche baseline. And if youre duel wielding, as Breath build should be, having atleast 1 weapon with Razorice on it would hopefully stack it up pretty damn quick. Testing will tell for sure but back before 2H got re-added, and you ran RI runeforge mandatory on 1 of your weapons, it stacked up VERY quickly.
I disagree. Obviously, I am speculating and we will see how testing goes but I believe 2H Oblit build will still be a viable option that will rely more on DnD cleave. But as it is now, even on 2H stacking up Razorice stacks with just Avalanche and Glacial Advance, it stacks up surprisingly quickly.
Oh but it really is and by all accounts so far, its really nice to play and hits like a truck. Would you have preferred it be a wasted skill that was never taken as it is now? Its gives the spec a high damage/moderate CD skill to use. Something the spec hasnt had at all and something that every other class in the game has had FOREVER. Its a great change for the skill. Better than I think anyone could have imagined up for the thing.
More thought than you clearly have. The fact that you literally complained that Breath wont want to press Frost Strike during their Breath windows proves my point. Youre thinking too much in the box and not taking in the full understanding of these and how they could interact with each other on builds outside of the current 2H Oblit/DW Breath builds.
Stay humble dude.
He’s a PvP-only forum troll, kinda. Deliberately misquotes people and literally argues against points that weren’t even made half the time.
Probably best to just ignore his random spouting of nonsense.
That makes so much sense. lol.
The alpha and the discord? Some of the same people here are on the discord. But its the vocal minority 100%. If it was the majority then people would be playing it.
They have stated they dont visit the forums that much. And they dont make all of their announcements on the forums.
You mean the people they let go?
2h was brought back because people harassed someone on twitter.
Im not a BoS player… thanks.
Funny how Obliteration players complain about not having any damage out of KM procs. And yes, you should have damage outside of these windows and procs, KM is so overloaded its not even funny anymore.
Duh… thats exactly what I said. So it limits its uses and most likely not going to be used with BoS builds since it seems Blizzard is intending you to use either Obliteration or BoS primarily and then one of these other capstones of your choice.
What they intend and what actually happens are completely different things. Frost Strike at the moment hasnt had anything to buff its usage even with this new capstone… so where are they going to get that damage from what are they going to nerf in order to have Frost Strike be worth anything?
Good… whatever you are talking about I dont care… just saying good to say good. You making pointless responses to what I have said is just pointless.
None of these are baseline and not used enough to stack it up reasonably fast. 1h weapons also miss quite a bit.
I dont care if you disagree. These changes are horrible with no real direction and everyone else is seeing it.
No it doesnt.
It really isnt. Again balance hasnt been done yet so anyone saying “holy wow omega damage batman!” is going to be disappointed when the balance passes happen.
Yes… its not like I havent talked about this before so im just saying what you want to hear at this point so you move on.
No you havent but keep thinking you have.
remove this and make it 15 or 20 sec baseline again
also buff deathstrike healing
[quote=“Frausst-stormrage, post:1, topic:1853731, full:true”]
Reading that gave me bad BFA vibes. I remember how annoying those uncontrollable dragon whelps proc was. Standing in the wrong direction when they procced and you could aggro half the dungeon.
Imagine missing that KM proccs and you suddenly send out a 100 yard Glacial Advance in a random direction. No thank you…
And why is ERW placed in the middle of the AOE-side of the tree? And i’m still missing the other one from the general class tree…
Youre tragically hopeless. Youre arguments are garbage and Im sorry that you live such a doomer existence. Moving on to some folks who have actually meaningful input into these changes instead of “Hmph…I dont like”. Hopefully we both get changes we like.
Its the Sepulcher tier set. People wanted it, they got it, and its packing more power into KM which is the problem with it.
Its not a random direction, its where you are facing.
I could understand an optimistic disposition to changes but there are valid criticisms of the design intent. Many of the new talents are just bolt on AOE effects and if the intent was to push the spec towards more cleave why not just make the abilities cleave in the first place.
Lmao it’s like 15yds, maybe 20. Not even close to “100 yard”.
There aren’t “sides” of the tree. Each “side” is composed of ST and AoE talents and has been since 10.0 beta.
Because not every class & spec should just have every single abilities cleave and contrary to popular belief, having multiple sources of damage is healthy for specs since it gives multiple tuning knobs that can be independently adjusted.