I don’t condone how the post said it, but where did they say it fixed the problem? A buff is showing a step in the right direction towards bringing the numbers to be on par with other damage specs. We don’t know how the numbers look in practice yet. People haven’t made the transition, and venthyr doesn’t have its second potency conduit yet.
I’m starting to think that there will be no pleasing this community unless frost is at the #1 DPS spot.
From what I have seen here with regards to frost mages in CN, https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/26#sample=1, frost has risen from dead last to the just below middle of the pack. Prior to the buff, the lower end of fire mages were out dpsing the top end of frost mages. Now the top end of frost mages are starting to compete with the upper-middle end of the average fire players. With the second potency slot opening up next week for Venthyr mages, we will probably see frost go up higher.
I for one don’t care that frost mage is not the top spot in terms of dps. I am glad that it is not in the position that it was.
When you start add percentiles and then ilvl you will see the 3 specs get a lot closer. Some fights Frost looks pretty good when you narrow down those things.
I know this is redundant, but If they knew what they were doing like most people think, why did they nerf frost to the ground twice b4 xpac only to try to fix it later on ?
And lol, Frost is nowhere near the top while Fire destroys eveything both in M+ and PVP.
I mean, there is approx 20% difference between Fire and Frost… Not like weère talking about 5-10% here.
I see people in the mage forum asking for nerf to Fire mages, which I am not in favor, but when you see youtube videos referring to COMBUSTION as the #1 BROKEN thing in the game… You simply remain silent…
I’m not going to make topics about attention seeking people that make QQ youtube videos over combustion. Combustion is what makes the spec. It’s about high burst, low sustain. For PVE, The logs make it clear that fire is fine in terms of single target, and a large part of that is from combustion. As for people that post about nerfing fire, I have responded to those threads.
The areas that aren’t fine for Fire are in PVP and M+. PVP can be nerfed on its own (separate from PVP because bosses won’t get one shot by combining a bunch of cooldowns together), and M+ is all about large trash pulls with uncapped AOE. Caps to flamestrike/flame patch are what’s needed for M+. Majority of players aren’t going to be pulling those large trash pulls that make fire so good in M+ anyway. If the nerfs will make the spec more balanced with other damage classes/specs, then I want them to do it for the sake of balance, but do it because of the numbers and not because of player perception.
Perception is the majority of what I’m posting about in these threads anyway. I’m asking question regarding the low number of parses in logs and flaws in data comparisons etc and most people aren’t giving a straight answer. I appreciate those that are giving honest assessments. Also, think about it this way: do you want a balanced buff or do you want to get buffed so much that you get nerfed again? Frost mages can have the top DPS slot for all I care honestly. Just don’t fly too close to the sun.
Maybe if Blizzard would fix the interaction between FoF and BF so that we don’t have to munch procs (and get absolutely 0 benefit) Frost would be in a better spot?
Like, the entire spec is being punished for ultimately what is RNG because we are widely unable to control when we get both procs. Eventually, you’re going to get Winters Chill on an enemy and also get an Ice Lance proc that you ultimately have to use… and waste.
I am not saying we as Frost Mages -must- be the top DPS spec. But we should certainly be viable. And that’s not asking much. But we shouldn’t get punished for our few abilities activating as Blizzard has intended.
wah wah dewshbag
This. At 210 ilvl at 75% on Heroic, Frost starts to look a lot better than aggregate scores. Obviously some fights there’s still a gap, but when you take into consideration the fight mechanics it’s not actually that bad. Sludgefist for example will always favour Fire as Combustion can line up with every pillar, and Council a lot of damage comes from passive cleave for both specs so…
The only fight Frost is looking bad for is Denathrius, but that really isn’t a friendly fight for casters with low movement. Frost is also looking to be above Arcane for most fights now. Frost could potentially still use a small buff to ST (through FB and Flurry so as not to increase cleave/AoE capabilities), and Arcane is looking like it could benefit from a buff too.
Damage done to bosses that fully heal on council is culled by warcraftlogs, so cleaving at all depends on kill order (I don’t know if this is different on Mythic).
This is true, and it’s kind of a problem that our entire build is based on combustion. It makes our position kind of fragile when our best conduit and legendary both primarily buff combustion and really push the spec to where it is right now.
Thankfully, Blizzard has been doing aura buffs/nerfs instead of putting their hands in borrowed power for balance, but if they were to go back to messing with borrowed power and touch FI or IC it would be a huge hit to Fire.
Anyway, the point isn’t about the potential that these would be nerfed, it’s about what we’re going to gain throughout the expansion if new conduits are added later. IC is so powerful that Blizzard would be really stupid to add anything stronger, while Arcane stands to gain a lot from a really powerful conduit being added since all of theirs are kind of “meh” and Frost can gain something that modifies their damage profile to become slightly more bursty. I don’t see Fire getting the same gains from anything being added given how strong IC (and to a lesser degree DotG) already is unless Blizzard miscalculates something horribly.
No what else is culled by logs. Shade damage on huntsman.
I leave huntsman feeling like a god amongst mortals then logs and I’m like last.
Also when eventually we are able to equip 2 legendaries it’s going to add complexity and be more fun for frost in both raid and dungeon scenarios.
Fires next best legendary is just gonna buff combustion even more.
They’ve been viable the entire expac. Fire’s just better overall w/ current implementation of M+/PvP/Raiding.
That’s not necessarily true, assuming we take fevered as #1 and firestorm/timewarp as #2 the RNG on firestorm is never guarenteed to line up with combust and the 5 min CD on timewarp will only line up with 1 combust before most fights are over.
Frost on the other hand -
Freezing winds & slick ice give you much more regular & controlled medium burst output for ST.
I think frost has more to gain from 2 legendaries at this stage, but I’m not simming it so its just hand waving & napkin math.
While all that is true mathematically speaking the next in line for single target dps is disciplinary Command with firestorm being the better add legendary.
Which isn’t bad but seems kinda boring to me to have 2 critical increases.
Frost has never been #1 for DPS. So it would be a nice change, yeah?
Viable? You obviously don’t raid. “viable” doesn’t get you a raid spot. Especially when every other class outguns you and the other two specs do as well. When you get booted by the community for playing a spec…something is off. You should work for blizzard. That way everybody can be “viable” and equally weak.
Blizzard even buffed Frost by 9% and said it was UNDERPERFORMING…all this while YOU keep saying “it is viable”.
Viable means you don’t need buffs because you’re not TOO FAR BEHIND. And yet…we got them because we are NOT viable.
Viable means you don’t need buffs at all because you are VIABLE. And that didn’t happen. Go ahead…hold your nose in the air…I know that YOU think differently then every other Frost Mage and blizzard themselves.
Don’t feed the troll, Turnitoff is most probably on Blizzard payroll.
We clearly have two different perspectives on what “viable” means then, fellow frost mage.
If it isn’t something people want, is it viable? You want to address the other part of my statement about the issue with our procs not actually meshing? How we literally have no synergy between them?
He’s probably gunning for mvp status, there is a vacancy now that Metrohahaha is gone.
Tell that to the frost mages that were 6/10M while you were piddling around in heroic.
Community problem, not a Blizzard problem.
It is relative to other specs. Still is underperforming other specs. Now more competitive. Has always been viable.
No, viable means you can complete content.
Viable: capable of working successfully; feasible.
You’re talking about being competitive. Big difference.
No, buffs were good. Its better to be competitive rather than just viable.
LOOK i can CAPITALIZE words too as if it MAKES A DIFFERENCE.
I don’t offer much of value, unlike MVPs.
I just point out that what people refer to as viable is actually the definition of competitive. 
You argue unconvincingly as many frost mages are denied from content, but you are persistent I’ll give you that, never has more effort been expended trying to convince people what they are experiencing isn’t happening.