I understand how you feel. I like being 2hander so I do not mind as much buut I want to try DW again and am running to the problem you mention haha. I got literally 4 hero track 2handers this week from vault, weeklies etc. lol. I am yet to get a pair of 1handers lol.
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They really need an option to specify not just spec, but one hand or two hand weapon drops. While itâs of mechanical importance to us, I HATE getting one handers on my mage.
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Yeah, I hear that, and I much prefer staves for certain characters and MH/OH combos for others, but those specs still play the same regardless of weapon type, no? Frost DK doesnât, at least not right now.
Is there any other spec in the game with a playstyle thatâs mechanically dependent on which type of weapon you equip? Genuinely asking here, because though Iâve played all the classes over the years, I havenât played all the specs.
I completely agree. I kept getting off hands w/ no 1h or vice versa on my mage and it drove me crazy. All I wanted was a staff. Even if I did get both 1h/oh I still prefer a staff for my casters and others may prefer 1h/oh. Iâd like to be able to focus loot on the specific type of weapon setup I want for each toon.
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As someone else already pointed out, transmog wouldnât solve anything. Youâd be using a slower 2h weapon and getting way, way fewer procs as Frost.
Yeah⊠me.
10% crit frost specific talent for 2h and able to apply 2 runeforge on a 2h weapon. arbitrary 10%, might go lower because it affects everything.
The removal of 2h is not on the table any more. They did that once and they had to bring it back cause people wanted it back.
If itâs so bad, then split the spec in two, the first choice you get when you choose frost is which weapon you want to use, then the whole window changes to fit the talents for the chosen weapon. Abilities stay the same, you have dragon breath and all that stuff, but the passives are 100% adapted to your chosen weapon. A 4th spec but not really, you know?
Do the same with Fury Warriors.
No.
Yes it is.
Because people literally harassed Holinka on Twitter. Them bringing 2h back was an attempt to shut people up.
No
No
They just need to go the transmog route and put their foot down.
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If I read correctly, which due to the childish arguments was rough, the main issues between the weps atm is runeforge and proc chance.
Argument can be made that MotFW is effectively the 2nd rune and that would be the place to stick an existing rune if that is something that actually needs to be solved. Would imagine it should be a different solve as razor ice vs fallen crusade isnât a real issue that much any more with multiple talents applying razor ice nowadays. That and hysteria getting removed.
As for proc chance, would it be feasible to add frost strike crits to be able to proc things for 2h? More reliant on crit, yes, but, viable option? Not saying this would equalize gap, but, would potentially make it closer with likely a different play style?. Probably would lock 2h more into oblit but, unfortunately, 2h hasnât really lent itself well to BoS. /Shrug my 2 cents anywho
Hereâs a super radical thought. Get rid of Runeforges. The entire system. Take all the abilities we can get via them and bake them into our various active and passive abilities and some talents (and have some be enhanced by talents). End the whole nonsense of being locked into the same few Runes (Razorice and FC for frost since Wrath if we being honest) and the one vs two Rune debate. We get and use weapon enchantments just like everyone else in the fragging game and runes become a integrated part of our build.
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Ultimately, no. It has ~100 builds to balance. Else, the talent trees become largely pointless, and flavor is just whether to be the tank, green-black DPS, or blue-black DPS DK.
Which begs the question: Is Breath worth balancing against Shattering? And, should there be actual room for playstyle variation beyond the tightest (most âsynergeticâ) Hero Talent bundles each to Breath and Shattering Blade â beyond mere dungeon-specific swaps for change in capacity?
If one would say the latter, it makes little sense to say that, say, both Shattering and Breath should be allowed choices in certain parent talents and yet Frost should offer no differences between how 2H and DW play and/or competitiveness between the two.
Tl;dr: If itâs worth balancing playstyle options within a spec, and people want distinct 2H vs. 1H playstyle options within the spec, it would be just as worth balancing those as any other set of options.
It scarcely matters in which order you worry about balance, so long as you do. And you should, as otherwise your choice only lasts as far as excessive lenience does or the added grind time allows.
If you worry about balance only later, youâre more likely to have to uproot all the preexisting designs, running into unintentional anti-synergies, oversights, and so forth once you realize that something was unbalanceable from the start. If you worry about it too strictly from the start, thereâs a chance some workaround thatâs awkward under the hood but generally not too awkward to actual gameplay might be missed. But itâs only that small margin of innovations vs. reliability on the off chance the two would differ in ideas happened upon, not some day and night difference.
AnywhoâŠ
My main question for 2H advocates:
Do you want 2h primarily for just the aesthetic, or primarily for the slight difference in actual gameplay?
- If you could just flat out Runeforge added Obliterate damage (at cost to Crusader or Razorice), thereby starting with your strongest attack and then filling the time between Runes with the less powerful Frost Strike instead of using Obliterate to build up to Frost Strikes stronger than it, would that already be an improvement to you?
- If you could choose between less frequent but more significant procs, and/or between higher uptime from procced effects or a more leverageable portion of uptime (such as by controlling when the procced effectsâ windows start), would that already be an improvement to you?
- Finally, if you could just get equal AA contribution over time (e.g., each 2H swing counts as 2.77 AAs* [2, with a 77% chance to count as 3]) and 2 Runeforges regardless so that there is literally no difference between 2H and 1H beyond aesthetic and needing twice as many initial drops for the latter⊠would that already be an improvement to you?
- *Based on the average 2H weapon speed of 3.6 divided by half that (since there are two) of a 1H (2.6s).
Its not even an argument, its the exact reason Blizzard listed as to why MotFW was being reintroduced. It is 2h 2nd runeforge and what the few people on the forums actually wanted.
They arent looking for the equation to be balanced, they are looking to get a leg up on DW. Thats it.
Not actually the issue. 2h has 100% chance to proc KM on auto crits while DW has a 30/60/100% chance per auto crit. So its not the chance, even before 2h had a higher % to proc KM then DW, its the sheer amount of auto attacks DW has over 2h.
That doesnt solve anything because DW then gets 2 enchants while 2h gets 1. People would still complain and instead of people saying â2h should get 2 runeforgesâ it then turns into â2h should get 2 enchantsâ. Then you just force people to buy enchants instead of getting free weapon enchants. Its more of a negative than a positive.
So⊠no.
-Confused Boi-
Worrying about balance later produces virtually the same results as worrying about balance first, with the biggest difference between wilder changes across patches when worrying about it later, approaching the same result.
Simplified enough?
Right the AA make more chance to proc as youâre adding more points of when something can proc it vs the chance on a single AA. So you would add another source with the ability to proc the things, frost strike. So the question becomes, does adding frost strike as another point of procing make up for the amount of AA from DW? Not saying or asking for it to be a 1:1 for proc, but shoring it up, while also giving a modicum of control rather than just on AA, does this make up this portion of DMG? Can at this point the argument be a more burst vs more consistent game loop?
Uhhhmmm⊠Sure.
As long as it is fun and feels good to play, thatâs a good foundation.
Half the posts in this thread are from Kelliste. Stop feeding the troll. There is literally no point in arguing with him. Only the trolliest of trolls would go into a popular topic like this and spend so much time saying so little.
4 Likes
Already had Frost Strike crits proccing KM and they removed it. They probably are never going to give 2h more stuff alone and will be specwide. They already spent 2 expansions on 2h with a low population actually playing Frost and they they focused on the spec then more people started playing it.
If 2h canât keep up then it canât keep up. They should just treat 2h like SMF, the option is there but it shouldnât be anywhere close to how the spec should be played.
100% of your posts are about me. Try being on topic. You are the actual troll.