I think you misread, I said someone pointed out that transmog WOULDN’T solve anything.
I did, but transmog would solve everything. Doesnt matter if people disagree, it would 100% solve everything.
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Recently returned but… to go 2h as Frost DK you don’t need a talent or anything specific, right? I was trying to remember whether or not that was a thing a long time ago.
Nope!
It’s just… let’s just say it’s going to feel bad allocating points on the right side as a 2-hander than the left since it boosts your Obliterate damage and nothing else. (Yes, there is a guaranteed KM proc from AA Crit but you know what I mean!)
See the passive: Might of the Frozen Wastes.
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As long as no one wants the free-talent-pathing variation in gameplay available to them nor cares whether they need a different weapon set to play one spec vs. the other two, yeah, I’d agree.
I don’t think it’s necessary, but it would be sufficient. A wasted future opportunity, but the easier solution to a current problem.
Forum likes are obviously the most accurate way to gauge what is and isn’t a good idea.
This has been discussed to death.
I know it’s tempting to jump in with wild ideas but there is only one path to making 2H and DW balanced, so that people can choose the aesthetic that they want without penalty. That path is to make them functionally the same.
Same number of auto-attacks.
Same number of procs.
Same number of runeforges.
Both need to be equally capable of playing all available builds.
If you’re asking for anything else then you’re just creating more problems.
I remembered reading this while playing my fresh DK. I opened up the box for that quest, and could only see one weapon from it. When i went to equip it, the speed was 3.6, and it was a 2h. I was UH spec, so i don’t know if the chest was based on spec, but they seem to have changed it for some reason.
they definitely changed it.
OG it was a pair of 1 handed pokers.
Then they locked DW to frost only so you could only equip one of them as other specs.
So now they must have changed even that.
That’s… actually funny.
Since they removed the weapon choices for both Blood and Unholy.
Honestly, I think that never should have happened.
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That means making them like DW because Frost players do not want their gameplay to be nerfed because 2h cant keep up. If you make 2h like DW then you kill DW because getting 1 weapon is vastly easier than getting 2 when the loot pools are flooded with 2h weapons that seem to have a significantly higher drop rate than 1h weapons.
Kills DW overnight.
its based on spec now since Blood and Unholy cant DW, people also should be reading their general abilities along with their class abilities. If you werent then you would miss out on knowing gaining expertise on certain weapons based on race, hit, what racials do and so on. There is a lot of things people should have read but never did.
This is a long post, explaining how I discovered 2h frost and why I prefer it over dw. It also goes into transmog at the end.
TLDR: For frost, I like the slower auto attack speeds of 2h weapons for frost an larger single hits for Obliterate from a single weapon, not 2. Transmog between weapon types is a problem, using survival hunter as an example (2h → dw) opposite of what the frost discussion is based off of (dw → 2h).
In late Cata I gave dw frost a chance. That was when I first hit the level cap. I wasn’t happy with 1h weapons, always keeping an eye out for a 2h and wishing I could use the rotation I learned from my friend with a 2h weapon (they told me that 2h used master frost at the time). That dw frost rotation was similar to what was recommended for MoP 2h frost and I was enjoying it a lot.
The MoP prepatch came with damage modifiers to Obliterate and Frost Strike based on weapon type with 2h weapons using the rotation I enjoyed in Cata. I picked up a 2h weapon and it just felt right to me, plus I was using the playstyle I enjoyed. It was an adjustment with fewer KM procs due to fewer auto attacks and a slower pace overall, but I got used to it and now I perefer it. If I want a more spammy spec then I can play my warrior. I have no interest in dw frost with more auto attacks and weapons that I don’t like. I want a slower pace with big Obliterate hits - that means using a slower, harder hitting 2h weapon. It’s also nice only needing to find a single weapon.
I never liked the aesthetic of 1h weapons in WoW. I have a hard time finding 1h weapons that I actually like the appearance of, plus I always wanted weapons that sheathed on the back (there are way too few of those). Now I hate dw 1h weapons after what the devs did to frost in Legion/BfA. TG fury is cool, but that’s the one exception when it comes to dw weapons in general for me. What I wound up doing during Legion/BfA was 1) run around with a 2h in really old content spamming howling blast w/ a 2h equipped or 2) transmog each 1h weapon differently (ugly 1h weapon that sheathes on the back main hand w/ an off hand that disappears when sheathed). I was still miserable w/ option 2 because of the faster pace of auto attacks and the ugly weapons I had to use.
One last thing, regarding transmog. Needing a different number of weapons equipped vs. transmogged would bother me. Especially, as mentioned above, when the weapons equipped have a faster auto attack speed and are a weapon type that I’ve come to hate. Plus you would have survival hunters who want to dw yet require a 2h - they would only need 1 weapon yet would want to transmog to 2 1h weapons.
If a survival hunter (2h weapon required at this point) wants to transmog to dw would like different appearances for each 1h weapon appearance, that would be a challenge for the devs because there’s only 1 weapon equipped. Each different color of each weapon is an entirely different weapon model in this game with no dye system. If I want one green weapon and one blue weapon that’s two different weapon transmogs. Maybe some hunters want to have different weapon models in each hand like how I got through Legion/BfA when I did content that was at least close to current content levels at the time. Maintaining that ability to transmog each 1h weapon separately is important to me.
Transmog between weapon types would be complicated and just wouldn’t feel right, especially when the number of weapons equipped is different from the number of weapons transmogged. It would be a mess. Some people might not care, but I do. The way things feel is important to me, and that feel can be different for everyone. There’s something that would feel off if I have one weapon equipped and xmog to 2 or vice versa and that would bug me.
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I always thought DW fit better with UH. The smaller, faster hits fit in better with the constant tick of DOTs, and the attacks of your minions. Ice doesn’t exactly scream fast attacks, but they definitely shoehorned it in there.
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This right here is the core of the issue. More then any class in the game by far, most of our procs happen off of auto attacks, which is why there has often been such a divide in the weapon types. Even taking weapon choice out of it, it removes a lot of the feel of player agency as we aren’t really in control of most of our kit.
I’m curious if this is a problem with other classes that can choose DW or 2H. Is the lack of two weapon enchantments as big a deal to them as to us? Problem is, enchantments are nice buffs but not a core part of any classes rotation. Our runeforges however fill specific niches in our kit. The frost debuff so we can ramp up damage, the self heal that we are otherwise lackluster on, the physical or magical damage mitigation and threat generation.
Most of us haven’t even changed what runes we us in a decade now because they are so mandatory. Maybe they should become built into our kit, or self buff spells like shamans elemental weapons. That would solve that particular problem without what I suspect is a ground up code rebuild of the entire enchantment system for this single edge case.
Old blood dps was the best. Fast shallow attacks to bleed an enemy and inflict maximum suffering and blood to work our magics on.
I agree. When I think of frost, I think of glaciers, slow moving and powerful (2h). Unholy with its focus on diseases and dots makes more sense for a spec focused on smaller, faster attacks (dw).
Why when the spec was always better with quicker attacks? KM even when it was based off of auto attack crits early on favored having more attacks go out.
Its really not.
Why? 2h was a considerably downgrade.
Nope. Doing the design route of the spec, Obliterate procs Rime, Auto attacks proc KM, KM used on Obliterate or Frost Strike while keeping diseases up on the target was just how frost was intended to play. Masterfrost was entirely a DW only thing and even in cata classic right now 2h is basically a noob trap and a heavy self nerf.
Its fine if you want to self nerf, but I dont know why anyone would want to nerf themselves. It makes no sense. There was no upside to it.
This has nothing to do with the weapon set. Runes regen at the same rate no matter the weapon. So with 2h its the same pace as DW with just less procs. That means less crits and crit wasnt a good stat. It was basically haste then mastery if you were playing the intended way the spec was designed, or mastery then haste if going masterfrost.
Can… can we stop with this? With how DW worked 2h did NOT hit harder. It only hit harder if you only took into account the main hand weapon damage but that is not how DW worked. 2h and DW damage was basically equal in terms of weapon strikes prior to adding in Nerves of Cold Steel. This was removed in Mists which equalized 2h and DW in terms of the damage strike abilities did. 2h didnt hit any harder than DW. Unless people were trying to play Frost with 1 1h, this just isnt true. Its just a slower weapon selection in terms of auto attacks and procs.
This is all this really comes down to which Transmog would fix.
And I hate 2h weapons with what they did in SL/DF and now TWW because it just flooded the loot table on a DW spec. This is specific to frost by the way and a lot of other people feel the same way. The only question is are people going to continue to put up with the loot table?
No one should care. The health of the spec trumps your feelings about this bothering you and im someone that is a stickler in other games about stuff that just doesnt matter. Like in minecraft having wooden beam supports that you wont see… but they are there. Im not about to say no to someone building their house without them.
So what?
And? Im not seeing the problem here.
Ill tell you what people say about Blizzard all the time… they can put in the work. And we know this is capable of happening because shoulders are 1 item yet you can transmog them independantly if you choose. The tech is there for this to happen with weapons they would just have to apply it.
Doesnt matter.
And? They do this with shoulders right now. You can have a red shoulder and a green shoulder right now if you want to. Its just a toggle away from happening.
Let them. The tech is already there.
It already exists.
No it wouldnt. If Rift can do it and its basically a dead game, then WoW can do it.
No, it actually wouldnt. Again this ability to do this is already there with shoulders. The only thing they would have to work on is the animations. Just create a toggle in the transmog window like shoulders and that will apply the other animations.
Why? If the look and the animations are identical to that of what you want now… why would you care? Its what you want + the benefits of DW mechanics. No DPS loss and you get the look you are after. Its literally a win win scenario with Transmog.
Blizzards, avalanches, falling icicles. I think people only thing about glaciers or something when it comes to ice. When you live or have lived in the north, things can turn bad fast in the winter.
Diseases can be fast or slow as well and in how people talk about Unholy and the diseases, they tick once every 3 seconds and they havent been that powerful historically. Diseases in WoW are pretty slow when it comes to a DK. Slow ticking and cant speed them up with haste (only through talents) and it would take a while to kill them.
Even if we want to look now Virulent Plague is only about 1% of your overall dps. The rest is Clawing Shadows and Death Coil (ignoring the massive dps contribution that the Rider’s are). So unholy really isnt a rot spec and never really had a focus on diseases outside of them augmenting something else like Scourge Strike damage or Obliterate damage. Now diseases are basically nothing. They could really be removed. 1.4% overall damage from Virulent Plague? Outside of wanting to squeeze everything out of the spec, you could basically ignore Outbreak and still do insanely well. Superstrain builds are different, but I dont see unholy as a dot spec (even though its kind of marketed to be one).
As someone who’s spent a notable amount of my life in an area where -10F was considered a ‘Nice brisk day’, you have little clue what your talking about. All of those seem like that hit fast, when you’re already in the middle of them. They are slow to build, waiting till that small snap before crashing into you with nigh unstoppable force.
And yes, most people associate Frost DK’s with glaciers because of Icecrown. You know, the giant glacier that was the home of our creator.
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Still no mass RP sink that is the Slab Avalanche. Btw. 
Oh well, at least the Frost DK tree changes are kinda nice…
Please bake in Imp. Rime or make it weight for 2h more. lol
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You know, id be down for a build that focused on super hard hitting howling blasts.
With a 2h, of course.
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No, im thinking of the process of freezing, which is the particles moving slower and slower, until they eventually stop at -460⁰. I’m not really thinking about actual ice, but what the cold does.
It’s also not about the speed of the diseases. It’s the constant ticking of multiple diseases, plus all the ghouls and pets you summon. Just smaller, consistent damage.
I’m not suggesting anything change, that was just always my thought process when randomly thinking about DK playstyle.