Exactly! This is it.
100% this. At the end of the day, doesnât matter whether youâre playing 2h or DW, if youâre in the basement or there is a better option (aka unholy), then it will stay in there.
Honestly, it just comes down to reverting the October Nerfs, the spec was at that point was baseline really solid with it slightly leaning towards 2h Obliteration with NF, but BoS was still strong on those larger fights too.
What I donât get is why we even need to have a DW spec? Iâm not the biggest WoW historian but Iâm pretty sure the 4 horseman are all 2H. Arthas was a 2H also. Why tf do we need a DW spec? It divides us and weakens us.
Meh. Tbf, most of the named dk npcs (important or not) that happens to dw weapons still follow Wrath system design. Example being Darian who is an Unholy dk, but has for most of his time in WoW dw weapons. The players seem to be the only ones with frost having dw locked to it after wrath.
Listen everyone wants the spec to be playable, competitive and most of all fun. Most can agree no one likes the breath spec for DW its garbage. If we use the majority of NPC DKs in game they are all 2H minus a few as it should be.
Fun class and spec design is the most important factor and DW Breath is not that.
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I have not argued against thatâŚ
At allâŚ
It sounds like most of the issue is BoS than DW.
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2% is SAD. We are so far behind in DPS is just sad. There are healers that are out dpsâing us in Mythics right now. But Boomkins and Ret are fine LAWLâŚWay to ruin yet another class. SMH
I laugh at you in Bookim. 2% is a JOKE
Yaaa as Bookims and Rets 2 shot us lawl
then you see the next posts I make where it doesnt matter because Frost DK is gutter tier trash
But any buffs to 2h wouldnt change that from happening. That just requires more looking at other specs or to rework DK defensives.
It doesnt matter how hard Obl. hits at that point.
Got ya⌠Ya Frosts whole kit needs at least a 10% buff to be viable in PVP let alone Mythic.
Threat of Thessarian was added when the spec was changed. Prior to 3.2, Obliterate didnt interact with KM or Rime and the spec that you guys are talking about prior to 3.2 was a hybrid frost / unholy spec. You picked up Howling Blast and Gargoyle. Its not that it wasnt meant to exist, its just the spec was still being developed.
And I really dont know why you are calling me a troll while repeating almost everything that I have said. Mentioned that 1h weapons for dps didnt have str on it and they still performed better than a 2h weapon for frost.
And no. DW Frost was a thing way before ICC even launched I played it and did just as well if not better than anyone else did.
So yes, Frost was a DW focused spec for each and every expansion. âkeeping 2h frost was something they went out of their way to doâ do you know what that means? That Frost was a DW focused spec and they went out of their way to try to make 2h work.
Thanks for proving my point.
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Not all the 4 horsemen were 2h and the first 3 death knights, or main ones in the story were Arthas, Marwin and Falric. Arthas used Frostmourne as a 1h weapon a lot, Marwin was DW, and Falric was sword and board. They were his main men going to Northrend chasing after Malâganis and also when they completely wrecked Lordaeron.
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Most weapons had attack power on them rather than strength or agility in Wrath. Part of the first-wave stat homogenization that also saw Blizzard cramming spirit down warlocks throats.
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Dude just starts arguments and spams the report button on your posts lmao. Grow up.
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No, it means that they were too lazy to reformulate the spec to properly incorporate DW and 2H options. As Verod mentioned, 2H was very strong and very dominant throughout a large portion of Wrath. DW was definitely not very popular until late into the expansion.
You keep defending DW and hating on 2H in almost every thread I see you in. Where does the hate stem from? Why are you so passionate about DW to the point that you believe 2H shouldnât exist?
Every time someone writes a thread or replies in a frost thread about solutions for frost - particularly 2H - some of them being very good solutions, I see you reply with some tired rhetoric about why it wonât work because of some conflict with Dual wielding. Why is that?
I am genuinely curious.
And also to stay on topic, a daily reminder that 2% to 2H frost is an absolutely GARBAGE tier buff lol.
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I just want to make sure people see this (since it was flagged). If you dislike Kelliste and their their behavior is unacceptable but think Verodâs behavior is acceptable, youâre 100% apart of the problem.
Yes, I understand Kelliste annoys a large portion of these forums. No, that doesnât excuse Verodâs behavior.
Itâs absolutely ridiculous that people give Verod a pass just because heâs pro-2h Frost when, if you actually read his posts in their entirety, theyâre from the same cloth that you hate with Kelliste, just from âyourâ side.
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Hating on 2h where? Sorry but stating how things actually were or saying the spec has a focus on DW is not 2h hate and you guys really need to quit with that line of reasoning.
Because there would be a conflict. How about this, instead of having this hate for DW and just trying to find more band aids to make 2h work, how about I dont know work on the spec. If there is a big issue somewhere then im going to say it and you cant stop it no matter how much you call me a troll.
There was a reason for the nerf back in october right? People have been complaining that there was only one option in the last row of talents since what, the end of BFA? So if they reverted those nerfs Obliterate would go back to being 60-70% of the specs damage which isnt healty and I said it was going to be nerfed before it was nerfed as did others because it was just way too strong, and it would have had 1 choice in the last row of talents something people were complaining about with BoS.
So what have been being trying to do? Introduce an execute back into the mix, which if anyone remembers in the past with Warriors being the only ones with an execute, their damage was lowered because their execute range was good.
The spec needs a complete rework which should have been done this expansion instead of just trying to shoehorn a weapon back into the spec. There are mechanical differences between the 2 weapon sets. And 2h was not dominant throughout a large portion of Wrath. Prior to 3.2 DW was the go to due to the 2 runeforges and how the hybrid build worked. Rime not being procced by Obliterate, Obliterate being able to consume KM. It was heavily focused on Icy Touch, Frost Strike, Howling Blast and gargoyle. After 3.2 is when the specs design was finalized and DW provided more KM procs and 2 runes along with needing less stats due to being able to go into Nerves of Cold Steel which provided hit chance and offhand weapon damage. So thats 3% less hit that you didnt have to get from gear and could put into other stats like haste or armor pen and could go into the unholy tree as well to pick up spell hit which reduced the amount of hit you needed for your spells to always hit. Hit and expertise were extremely high in terms of dps gains and DW got some % just through the talent tree.
I dont hate on the weapon, i hate what impact it has to the spec that is being repeated like Blizzard learned nothing from the past expansions that this was tried. In case you havent noticed both sides arent actually liking this frost design. But those people arent just trying to push 2h instead of the spec, wanting DW to be removed even though its been the focus of the spec for 7 expansions. Saying something isnt so over and over wont change the fact that it is a DW focused spec.
For months before launch I was saying to implement 2h properly if its going to be implemented otherwise we get what the forum environment we have now. Its nothing but complaints and here I am having people telling me to kill myself, or wanting to beat me up over some spec in the game.
You can say Blizzard is too lazy, but when you actually look at the spec as a whole and not just âi want 2h to be betterâ you can actually see the problems with its design. Revert the nerfs and 2h aoe is absolutely dead, I mean completely and utterly dead. Obliterate would be doing way too much damage, even for DW to a point, for there to be other options. The nerf actually opened up the spec so you didnt have 7/8 of the talents just utterly worthless.
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